dont shoot the newbie but...

[Nanohedron]

With the C and the F both being #, does that mean the GHP are in key of D?

Not exactly. Better to say the modes it uses are relative to D. It usually plays with A as the keynote, which means it's in A mixolydian.

And LOUD. GHBs are field instruments, properly. Play 'em indoors to antagonise your guests. You get nine notes, and that's the limit. If some players can get more, I'm unaware of it.

Uilleann pipes are indoor-friendly instruments, loudness-wise. You get 2 octaves (sometimes a bit more) from them, so there are a lot more melodic options going on, esp. with keys for the accidentals. Standard pitches for sets are D, C#, C, B, and Bb.

If you really want to play a GHB-type instrument but don't want the volume issues, you might look into border pipes or Scottish smallpipes. Both can be bellows or mouth blown depending on the setup you want. But go with the bellows. Trust me.

[Yuri]

Yeah, GHB are warpipes. You play them in a pub, you start a war. UP are pub pipes. You play them on the battlefield, everybody stops and goes to the pub.

[TheSpoonMan]

If some players can get more, I'm unaware of it.

I've heard some can overblow a high B. Used to be standard border pipe technique too, I think? Anyone know any better?

[Yuri]

Border pipes are not the same as GHB, you can't start a war. You just get kicked out of the pub.
As to overblowing, Spanish gaidas, in spite of all the differences still the closest to GHBs, are overblown as a matter of course. They also have partly cromatic fingering, so a bigger range. They also take much less air.
No, I don't play them, and don't sell them, either.

[cowtime]

Yeah, GHB are warpipes. You play them in a pub, you start a war. UP are pub pipes. You play them on the battlefield, everybody stops and goes to the pub.

Depends on where you and the pub are. A couple of our pipers fired up in one, the two bass drummers hit the floor, and within seconds others joined them-folks started coming in off the street and a very loud good time was had by all.

[Lexxicos]

You get nine notes, and that's the limit. If some players can get more, I'm unaware of it.

I believe on the GHB chanter (On the Practice Chanter and possibly on SSP I believe the pitches are untrue) once can cross finger a C natural, as well as an F natural and I have heard inklings of a D#. I have never heard of a high B on GHB. With keywork it is feasible, and I have seen SSPs with High B keys, and I believe it is possible to overblow a High B on the Border Pipes by a method called "Something-ing the Back/stitch/something". Basically you stick your thumbnail in the High A hole, cutting it in half, and increase bag pressure.

Apparantly there are also specimens of old GHB chanters that bear a hash across the High A hole from what is probably this "Something-ing the Back/stitch/something".

[BigDavy]

Hi Lexxicos

The term is "Shivering the Back Lil" I believe.

David

[Lexxicos]

Ah! That's it! Thank you Big Davy. 1/4 words ain't bad.

[Donald E Baltus]

With all due respect to our newbie, this thread makes me proud because, it's the kind of question which would get a newbie eaten alive in a lot of forums. Answers were both patient and instructive and welcoming. You guys are great.

It's easy. Just bore anyone who knows anything at all interesting to say about the instrument to tears for a year or so by smothoderating it to death, and naturally anyone left finds the question just as fascinating as the newbie posting it, because jolly dissertations on the difference between uilleann pipes and Highland pipes is about the level at which the tootlers remaining function anyway.

Quick--lock the thread...lock the thread...!!!!!!!!

[Joseph E. Smith]

Baltus, baby, where've you been? You know, it just struck me, you're exactly the thing we need over on the Polical Forum.

[CHasR]

You get nine notes, and that's the limit.

I certainly dont want this to turn into some sick, competitive GHB thread, but solely for the sake of completeness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrz5OBu0sRk

Pretty sure I got to all 13 tones in that clip. (apologies to all ....never again....)

As for the question of "what key is one's pipe in?"

Certainly in a linear sense, the bagpipe can express an individual tonality, or modality, and a previous definition said this most eloquently.

But speaking from an strictly acoustic standpoint, what we're dealing with on any chanter/ drone texture is a succession of intervals (3rd, 4th, 5th, 10th, etc); which western music theory hasnt dealt with as in depth as with scales, modes,& harmonies.

(We get an inkling of 'pipe theory' in the early stages of 1st- 3rd species counterpoint, then the focus turns to polyphony + its a downhill slide right into chord changes....)


For the TS's benefit Id also like to underscore the suggestion to investigate Lowland/Border (call them what you will) pipes. They can incorporate the best of both worlds. Pipes such as Swayne's &Goodacres, for ex., are (IMO) cutting edge: (being in many 'tonalities', overblowing like French pipes, 1/2 closed fingerings, chromatic xcept for a couple tones, can be either bellows and/or mouth blown, synthetic reeded, synth. bagged for dependability + ease of maintenance) innovative, long wait, definitely a 'designer' pipe. In the end worth the $ + wait. imo

BTW TS: Donald Mac Pherson/ Brown + Nichol; Seamus Ennis / Leo Rowsome might be worth listening to in addition to Duncan, Keenan, Power. They should expound better than words can any + all differences between UP + GHB.

[Nanohedron]

With all due respect to our newbie, this thread makes me proud because, it's the kind of question which would get a newbie eaten alive in a lot of forums. Answers were both patient and instructive and welcoming. You guys are great.

It's easy. Just bore anyone who knows anything at all interesting to say about the instrument to tears for a year or so by smothoderating it to death, and naturally anyone left finds the question just as fascinating as the newbie posting it, because jolly dissertations on the difference between uilleann pipes and Highland pipes is about the level at which the tootlers remaining function anyway.

Quick--lock the thread...lock the thread...!!!!!!!!

You can expect a visit from me tonight. I know where you live.

Well, maybe Thursday. Whatever.

[Doc Jones]

GHB were initially made to terrify the enemies of the Scots.

Uilleann pipes were designed to clear out the pub at closing time.

Both have undergone considerable evolution since their early origins. GHB are now used to mainly terrify unsuspecting parade watchers.

Uilleann pipes have become a musical instrument. Though, in the right hands, they are still excellent for clearing out pubs.

Saddam Hussein removed all the GHB from Iraq and hid them in Syria before Coalition forces invaded his country. Had he kept them in the country, and used them, the outcome of the war would likey have been different. Though I doubt he'd have survived the political blacklash from the international community.

Doc


Doc

[Jasons old man]

are there big differences in Uilleann and Highland Pipes?

Sorry, yes, there are many big differences. The first of which is you have to stand up and blow real hard into an uncomfortable tube that'll mutate the shape of your teeth and gums, in order to play the Highland pipes.

Well that is true for MANY GHB players, however I have been playing GHB for over 25 years and my pipes do blow easy and do not cause teeth issues. I beleive the issue is many players think you have to blow hard to be a good player..... NOT!!!! Once I was shown how to set reads up properly by Jimmy McIntosh piping became a pleasure. YTes they are LOUD but that is what they are.

You get to sit down and have a liesurely smoke and a cuppa tea while you comfortably work the bellows with a spare arm in order to play the Uilleann Pipes.

I do that with my small pipes....

Jasons Old Man

[pancelticpiper]

As someone who has played both Highland and uilleann pipes for around 30 years and recently has gotten into the so-called "Border" pipes, I need to add a few comments.
About the capabilities of the Great Highland Bagpipe (GHB) chanter, the older chanters were capable of a few accidentals in addition to the usual scale (which was the written range of G to A, in two sharps, and could be thought of as D major played over an A drone, or as A mixolydian. Sounding pitch is one-half step higher.) Older chanters are nearly always capable of sounding an in-tune C natural and F natural as well as high G sharp. No fingering will produce an in-tune D sharp or B flat on any GHB chanter I've played, though these notes can be produced by half-holing. In recent years GHB chanter design has changed considerably, the bore and tone holes being enlarged to create a louder, sharper instrument. Older chanters could play in tune at concert B flat. The new chanters play around a quarter-tone sharp, sounding halfway between B flat and B natural. These new sharp loud chanters are often resistant to the fork-fingerings used to produce C natural, F natural, and high G sharp. The irony is that there is a recent fad of GHB players to compose and play tunes which use these notes, at the same time that the instrument is evolving in a way to make these notes more difficult or in some cases impossible to play.
Now the so-called "border" pipe chanter is like a GHB chanter but has a narrower bore and different reed, so that it is considerably quiter than a GHB, in some cases no louder than a loud uilleann chanter. Also "border" chanters are less stable so that they respond better to fork fingerings. Many "border" chanters, by whatever name (various makers call them border, lowland, session, or reel chanters) are fully chromatic over the A to A range, giving a quite in-tune B flat, C natural, D sharp, F natural, and high G sharp. These chanters are usually in A, not one-half step up in B flat like GHB chanters. They are often seen with keys for high B, high C sharp, low G sharp, low F sharp, low E, etc. Some leading current makers are Hamish Moore, Nigel Richard, Fred Morrison, and Jon Swayne.
Now about the GHB being more physically taxing to play than the uillean pipes, I know a few guys who have played GHB for ages who have recently taken up the uilleann pipes who will tell you the opposite. One guy, a very good GHB player, actually threw out his shoulder with the effort required by the bag arm of the uilleann pipes. Though it plays at a lower absolute pressure, the uilleann pipes require rather more elbow strength on the bag arm than the GHB. Why this is, I can't say. Technique-wise it is a push- both instruments, the GHB and the UP, have amazingly complex technique. GHB players who take up the UP are dismayed to discover that there may be as many as a half-dozen ways to finger a single note depending on octave, on-the-knee/off-the-knee, whether vibrato or certain ornaments are used, or for different tone colours, etc.