Cá Bhfuil Na Gaeilg eoirí?

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:43 am

There is something absurd and rather tragic about setting out on a journey around a country, knowing that if you speak the language of that country you will not be understood. It is even more absurd when the country is your native one and you are speaking its native language.

...

I chose Dublin as a starting point, confident in the knowledge that in a city of 1.2 million people I was bound to find at least a few Irish speakers. I went first to the Ordnance Survey Office to get a map of the country. (As a semi-state organisation it has a duty to provide certain services in Irish.) "Would you speak English maybe?" the sales assistant said to me. I replied in Irish. "Would you speak English?!" he repeated impatiently. I tried explaining once again what I was looking for. "Do you speak English?" he asked in a cold, threatening tone. "Sea," I said, nodding meekly. "Well, can you speak English to me now?" I told him as simply as I could that I was trying to get by with Irish.
"I'm not talking to you any more," he said. "Go away."

I really needed a map for the journey ahead; it would be hard enough to get by without having to ask for directions constantly. I tried addressing the man one last time, using the simplest schoolroom Irish that he must have learned during the 10 years of compulsory Irish that every schoolchild undergoes, but he covered his ears, and I was left with no choice but to leave.

It was not a good start...

The rest of the article can be read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1983434,00.html

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:21 am

Thanks for that.

djm · Post by **djm** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:23 am

Very cute. Good to know about. Thx.

djm

Jack · Post by **Jack** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:38 am

You are both very welcome.

Like most people on this forum, I like Irish music. And like most people, I don't really speak a word of Irish (my English sucks, too, haha), so things like this interest me a lot.

None the less, the journey was still a strain for most of the time. I got given the wrong directions, and served the wrong food, and given the wrong haircut, but I was rarely threatened or made to feel foolish again. Even on the staunchly loyalist Shankill Road in Belfast I was treated with civility, though warned that if I persisted in speaking the language I was liable to end up in hospital. In Galway, I went out busking on the streets, singing the filthiest, most debauched lyrics I could think of to see if anyone would understand. No one did - old women smiled, tapping their feet merrily, as I serenaded them with filth. In Killarney, I stood outside a bank promising passers-by huge sums of money if they helped me rob it, but again no one understood.

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:02 am

I always find the Irish reaction to Irish kind of interesting. Among the young set, the language always seems to result in much eye rolling, groaning and teasing. Just yesterday on the bus back from town I sat next to some fellas that were having a good laugh mocking the Irish translation on one of the signs in the bus.

Innocent Bystander · Post by **Innocent Bystander** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:03 am

Aye, it was in my paper this morning.

Bit of a shame the Government Offices didn't speak it - since it's a Civil Service requirement. But as for starting the journey in Dublin - where much of the population will barely listen to you if you speak English - you can only say "predictable".

I'd be interested to see how the same experiment would fall out in the Netherlands. I'd be prepared to bet he would find a few people who could talk to him. In Ireland they'd be too suspicious that he'd be "taking the loan out of them" and since he is a journalist, they would be right...

Father Emmet · Post by **Father Emmet** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:08 am

- old women smiled, tapping their feet merrily, as I serenaded them with filth.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:08 am

It's sad, but I'm not really surprised. I'm horrible at picking up languages myself so I'm not really surprised at the results of this guy's little experiment. Hell, I barely speak english on some days and I've forgotten every word of french and japanese I was ever taught in school. Some people have a knack for picking up language but most of us lose it after about the age of five or so. They ought to start teaching the language to children in their cribs, not elementary school, if they expect them to retain any of it.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:24 am

Innocent Bystander wrote:Aye, it was in my paper this morning.

Bit of a shame the Government Offices didn't speak it - since it's a Civil Service requirement. But as for starting the journey in Dublin - where much of the population will barely listen to you if you speak English - you can only say "predictable".

I'd be interested to see how the same experiment would fall out in the Netherlands. I'd be prepared to bet he would find a few people who could talk to him. In Ireland they'd be too suspicious that he'd be "taking the loan out of them" and since he is a journalist, they would be right...

I'm not too surprised. You'd be amazed at how many people come to IGTF looking for translations for rote answers for their civil service exams (we even get people applying for jobs as teachers, who are required to be fluent in Irish, asking us to translate their resumes!). It's very sad.

Redwolf

OnTheMoor · Post by **OnTheMoor** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:33 am

Innocent Bystander wrote:Aye, it was in my paper this morning.

Bit of a shame the Government Offices didn't speak it - since it's a Civil Service requirement. But as for starting the journey in Dublin - where much of the population will barely listen to you if you speak English - you can only say "predictable".

I'd be interested to see how the same experiment would fall out in the Netherlands. I'd be prepared to bet he would find a few people who could talk to him. In Ireland they'd be too suspicious that he'd be "taking the loan out of them" and since he is a journalist, they would be right...

Actually, TG4 has a very popular Irish language travel show (captions in english) and in one episode the host had a conversation in Irish with a lady of the night in Amsterdam.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:39 pm

I don't know, I guess that if I wanted to (genuinely) engage someone in the language, I would purposefully have avoided starting in Dublin. \

I find it difficult to believe that the author is being very genuine here... I mean, he's learned to speak the language, and yet the article never mentions An Gaeltacht ? The author starts his search in Dublin, and continues to press his point with the desk clerk at the Survey Office (the point of that was what, exactly? Did he expect that the clerk was suddenly going to become fluent)?

I can recall a visit to the GAA Museum at Croke Park, and inquired in the gift shop "Will T-G- Four being showing the football final live?". She quickly corrected me by saying, "Yes, they will, but it's pronounced T-G- CA-HER." "Oh. Right, so it is. T-G CA-HER. Go raibh maigh agat."

So he's off to Grafton Street for a pint, and can't get service because the barman doesn't speak Irish.... he doesn't tell us where the barman is from, however... (I'd have to say that these days, a Dublin barman is likely to be from somewhere other than Ireland, especially on Grafton Street).

The bit of busking in Galway was too cute by half - what did he expect the little old ladies to do? Call the Gards and have him arrested? How does he know they didn't understand the lyrics?

No, I think the author is being someone disingenous with this whole approach. It seems to me that the premise was to find out if 25% of the population speak the language. So (based on what I read) the author went to Dublin, Kildare, Killarney, Belfast and Galway. I'm guessing here, but my bet is that the author searched out places where he knew (or hoped) the language wouldn't be spoken. I wonder how long a conversation would have lasted had he ventured into Connemara, or perhaps to Donegal?

That said, the author does have a point about the language dying. On the other hand, I'm young enough (old enough?) to remember that Latin - LATIN - was a required language in my public high school.

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:41 pm

Redwolf wrote:I'm not too surprised. You'd be amazed at how many people come to IGTF looking for translations for rote answers for their civil service exams (we even get people applying for jobs as teachers, who are required to be fluent in Irish, asking us to translate their resumes!). It's very sad.

Redwolf

I understood that the language requirement had been lifted for teachers? Didn't I read that somewhere in the past year or so? (And oddly, most third-level schools still require it of enrolling students...?)

dubhlinn · Post by **dubhlinn** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:31 pm

Bit harsh on the Dubs for sure.

Most of the shop assistants in Dublin today are from Europe or China and in the clip on the other thread the guy is in Temple Bar, a place no self respecting Dub would ever set foot in.

Most Irish people, though not fluent, can hold a simple conversation in Gaelic. The Irish language might be walking with a limp but it ain't dead yet, far from it.

Slan,
D.

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:46 pm

brianc wrote:
Redwolf wrote:I'm not too surprised. You'd be amazed at how many people come to IGTF looking for translations for rote answers for their civil service exams (we even get people applying for jobs as teachers, who are required to be fluent in Irish, asking us to translate their resumes!). It's very sad.

Redwolf
I understood that the language requirement had been lifted for teachers? Didn't I read that somewhere in the past year or so? (And oddly, most third-level schools still require it of enrolling students...?)

Not to my knowledge, no.

I had the same reaction regarding the Gaeltachtaí...if the guy really wanted to speak Irish, why not go someplace where Irish is still acknowledged to be the daily language?

This whole thing reminded me a bit of the short film "Yu Ming is Ainm Dom." I remember poor Yu Ming trying to get a bed at a hostel in Dublin, but the clerk is from Australia and thinks he's speaking Chinese!

Personally, here at home in the "Santa Cruz Gaeltacht," I find Irish very useful for dealing with telemarketers and panhandlers. I actually had a panhandler grumble at me once that if I was going to live here, I should learn to speak English.

Redwolf

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:50 pm

dubhlinn wrote:Bit harsh on the Dubs for sure.

Most of the shop assistants in Dublin today are from Europe or China and in the clip on the other thread the guy is in Temple Bar, a place no self respecting Dub would ever set foot in.

Most Irish people, though not fluent, can hold a simple conversation in Gaelic. The Irish language might be walking with a limp but it ain't dead yet, far from it.

Slan,
D.

Temple Bar? What? You mean that place isn't teeming with Irish and speakers of the language?!? Just wait 'til I get my hands on that travel agent!

And he was surprised when no one wanted to help him rob a bank in Killarney, claiming that the didn't understand him? (So maybe they didn't but anyone that did is supposed to jump at the chance to rob a bank because a stranger has offered the chance)?

He got the wrong food at a restaurant? So? You should have seen what a waitress in Ennis brought to my table when I asked for "cream for the coffee, please" (yes, in English). Turns out she didn't understand the language, either. She was from Poland. Oh well.