Generations - What's the problem?

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shadeclan
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Post by shadeclan »

Don90250 wrote: Remember, whistles don't kill people, r*c*rd*rs [do] .... (sorry, couldn't resist)
Yes, sadly there are those of us who wake screaming each night because of our 5th grade music classes . . . :lol:

You know, Greg - my wife and I used to have arguments like this all the time in that, by the time we were finished fighting, we realized that we were both trying to make the same point . . . hmmmm . . .
We've got a date with destiny . . . and it looks like she's ordered the lobster!
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Post by dwinterfield »

shadeclan wrote:You know, Greg - my wife and I used to have arguments like this all the time in that, by the time we were finished fighting, we realized that we were both trying to make the same point . . . hmmmm . . .
Some refer to this phenomena as being "in violent agreement" with each other. Happens a lot and if you're engaged in it, it's almost impossible to recognize, even when a dis-interested party points it out.
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Post by Tommy »

Tommy wrote:Hmmm....

Hmmmm.......
''Whistles of Wood'', cpvc and brass. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69086
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Post by Wanderer »

shadeclan wrote:
Don90250 wrote: Remember, whistles don't kill people, r*c*rd*rs [do] .... (sorry, couldn't resist)
Yes, sadly there are those of us who wake screaming each night because of our 5th grade music classes . . . :lol:

You know, Greg - my wife and I used to have arguments like this all the time in that, by the time we were finished fighting, we realized that we were both trying to make the same point . . . hmmmm . . .
You figured it out..i'm secretly carrying a torch for Peter :)

I think I was just stressed yesterday. I feel awfully silly about how heated I became about the whole thing.
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emtor
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Post by emtor »

I feel awfully silly about how heated I became about the whole thing
No worries mate . . . no worries. My grandmother used to say that a heated argument purifies the air. :)
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straycat82
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Post by straycat82 »

A curious question: when you folks are speaking of the Generations being consistently/inconsistently in or out tune, are you referring to the whistle being properly tuned at purchase or are you talking about the whistle being in-tune with itself once the headjoint is unglued and moved to it's proper in-tune position?
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Post by walrii »

Don90250 wrote:Remember, whistles don't kill people, r*c*rd*rs .... (sorry, couldn't resist)
That's right! And those of us who also frequent the Dark Side of the Fipple will unleash their deadly force if we don't get a bit more respect.
The Walrus

What would a wild walrus whistle if a walrus could whistle wild?

The second mouse may get the cheese but the presentation leaves a lot to be desired.
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shadeclan
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Post by shadeclan »

emtor wrote:
I feel awfully silly about how heated I became about the whole thing
No worries mate . . . no worries. My grandmother used to say that a heated argument purifies the air. :)
By . . . burning out the nose hairs?? :D

walrii wrote: That's right! And those of us who also frequent the Dark Side of the Fipple will unleash their deadly force if we don't get a bit more respect.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I've seen your mega-super, atomic-powered r3c0rd3r. Please don't hurt me . . .
We've got a date with destiny . . . and it looks like she's ordered the lobster!
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falkbeer
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Post by falkbeer »

emtor wrote:
I feel awfully silly about how heated I became about the whole thing
No worries mate . . . no worries. My grandmother used to say that a heated argument purifies the air. :)
I´d say that the best arguments, or debates, are those of people with very diffrent opinions. New fresh ideas are often borne in a dialectic process. But ofcourse one should be open and listen with respect to your opponent and not just repeating your argument and holding your position. I come from a culture (Sweden), where consensus is the norm, with a result of particulary boring and dull debates and meetings where new ideas seldom or never evolves, but where everybody are having a nice time agreeing with each other!
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Joe63251
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Post by Joe63251 »

Hi all,

First off, my respects to all who have posted! This has been a very enjoyable discussion!

While my last post was pretty frivolous, I have enjoyed following this thread over the past few days and wish to enter a serious opinion on the actual thread topic:

Has the quality of Generations gone down over the years?

I think the answer is no.

With respect to all the learned and passionate arguments already given, I think the truth of the situation is much simpler. I don’t think the quality has gone down. I think the quality level never was what we nostalgically thought it used to be.

I’m not trying to bash Generations—in fact I’m very fond of them! I just believe that as whistle fanatics (which we all are as C&F forum members) our standards and expectations have grown far greater than those at those of the Generations’ manufacturers.

If we were able to corner one of the designers/quality control experts/production managers of the Gens at the factory and fill him/her full of truth serum, I suspect that they would see nothing wrong with the quality of instruments they produce.

The problem isn’t one of lack of quality at the factory; it is a matter of production goals. I believe Generation whistles are and always have been designed to be an inexpensive, easily and quickly mass-produce-able, beginner’s instrument for kids. They were never intended to be a professional quality, delicately balanced, intricately tuned musical instrument made to strict and exacting tolerances.

The whole argument is comparable to arguing a two-seat Cessna is a poor quality airplane because it can’t fly in outer space like the space shuttle. It is NOT a bad airplane, it just wasn’t designed to do what the space shuttle does.

The same is true for Generation whistles.

We are all whistle enthusiasts. Most of us started playing on Generations (or something similar) and found them to be wonderfully fun to play. For the first few months or years we were happy to play them and enjoyed the experience. (Just like a new pilot loves the first time he flies solo.) But over the course of time, as our playing improves and we purchase more whistles, OUR STANDARDS INCREASE. Like that pilot, as he learns to fly bigger, faster, and higher flying planes, we also get a wider perspective on whistle abilities and characteristics. Many of us switch to other makers and brands. Some prefer more chiff; some less. Some want more volume, some less…

The Generations which we started out on and originally enjoyed playing didn’t get worse, we became more sophisticated and more demanding! We’re looking for space shuttle function and quality out of a two-seat plane! And when we return to playing that first whistle, it is like an astronaut flying in coach after walking on the moon.

I’m not criticizing the Generations at all! I’m just trying to be realistic and look at it from the company’s perspective. I think their goal all along has been to produce a serviceable whistle to meet the needs of kids at an affordable price—not to supply whistle fanatics a perfect, professional quality musical instrument for under $10. If there is any doubt to that, then ask yourself: “If Generations were supposed to be top grade instruments, why do they GLUE the tops on?” …because they were never intended to be much more than a toy.

That said, occasionally a nearly perfect whistle does fall off the assembly line. That isn’t because the rest are faulty. It is merely a fluke.

As for why quality seems to be getting worse over time, I think that is just our nostalgia comparing the first whistle we loved (and weren’t so critical of) to the current whistles available (which we have all grown to be professional critics of). They haven’t gone down in quality, we’ve gone up in expectations.

Generations remain good whistles. There are many brands BETTER than Generations, but Generations are still good whistle to those who love them for the simple whistle they are.

If you want to fly, get a Generation. If you want to fly amongst the stars, get an Overton, O’Riordan, Copeland, Burke…

Thanks for reading my manifesto! :D

And thanks to everyone who has participated in the discussion. I’ve enjoyed it immensely.

Joe
I'm not lazy, I'm just blessed with a lack of ambition, that's all.
-Satchmo
emtor
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Post by emtor »

By . . . burning out the nose hairs?? big grin
hehehe :D :D :D
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peeplj
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Post by peeplj »

Finding my first really nice Gen was a nice experience.

Playing my first Burke was a jaw-dropping experience. Then I thought I was used to really nice whistles until I first played my Overton.

But yeah, a really good Gen is kinda nice. It's no Overton, though, and it's no Burke.

I think there is a place for all of these whistles, and then some. They are all whistles, but they are far from the same.

--James
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"Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending" --Carl Bard
emtor
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Post by emtor »

But yeah, a really good Gen is kinda nice. It's no Overton, though, and it's no Burke.
Quite correct,-but the good old Gen has a TRADITIONAL sound.
-Stray too far off the beaten track and then one day no one will remember what a traditional whistle sounded like.
There is a place for both;-the good old trad and new innovations.
Let's keep them both.
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Mitch
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Post by Mitch »

Ahh man!

Not to dis-suede the good folk of Shropshire or any devotees of the hard-way of making music: Do I have to graph another thousand of these things???

vis - http://www.ozwhistles.com/magen.htm

As far as I can discern, a Gen is everything to all whistlers in the right light.

For myself, I am tempted from time to time to tweak a whistle for certain customers while manning my little whistle tent at festivals waiting patiently for real good players to miraculously materialise and buy some of the truly remarkable high enders I vainly drag around with me ...

To my endless chagrin, only a week ago, I entweeked a Feadog for a curious punter to while away the hours and discovered what, to my mind, was the perfect Feadog!!!!!!!!!!

I tell you no lie - there is such a thing as Santdawg! Smoothe! in tune! balanced octaves! No Squeeks or squeels! Invokes magical favours of all sorts!!!

Bugger the Gens and MaGens! There is a god of gods in the sdoG (or as I like to say the MaDog!!!)

Sadly, I had to sell my MaDog - but i'm sure there's more in my horde!!

Gimme a MaDog any day!
All the best!

mitch
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Whistlin'Dixie
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Post by Whistlin'Dixie »

Mitch wrote:Ahh man!

Not to dis-suede the good folk of Shropshire or any devotees of the hard-way of making music: Do I have to graph another thousand of these things???

vis - http://www.ozwhistles.com/magen.htm

As far as I can discern, a Gen is everything to all whistlers in the right light.

For myself, I am tempted from time to time to tweak a whistle for certain customers while manning my little whistle tent at festivals waiting patiently for real good players to miraculously materialise and buy some of the truly remarkable high enders I vainly drag around with me ...

To my endless chagrin, only a week ago, I entweeked a Feadog for a curious punter to while away the hours and discovered what, to my mind, was the perfect Feadog!!!!!!!!!!

I tell you no lie - there is such a thing as Santdawg! Smoothe! in tune! balanced octaves! No Squeeks or squeels! Invokes magical favours of all sorts!!!

Bugger the Gens and MaGens! There is a god of gods in the sdoG (or as I like to say the MaDog!!!)

Sadly, I had to sell my MaDog - but i'm sure there's more in my horde!!

Gimme a MaDog any day!
Fascinating!

And great photos! :lol: :lol:

M
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