A curious observation aboot Seamus

[rgouette]

At the risk of offending those who hold Mr Seamus Ennis in high esteem..
Also, however this being a free forum...

I watched a youtube Seamus Ennis clip the other day, and noticed a few things like some missed notes, drones going out of tune for a bit..
Niether of which bother me in the slightest.

What is sort of interesting, is the comments given by those who watched it as well.
Things that basically say how he's just about deity in the piping world.
How they are brought to tears on hearing him play.. etc etc

It makes me wonder a few things..
1) Are folks doing Seamus justice by putting up clips that for whatever reason just don't sound good in comparison to more modern samples?
2) Is it possible that some might get the wrong impression of Seamus if they stumble onto a clip that doesn't sound "good"?
3) Though not a very accomplished player myself, I for one am glad whenever I hear someone of repute miss a note or let the drones wander a bit as it gives a somewhat human air to the whole complicated thing and makes the less accomplished of us, think we have a chance of making music.

Maybe I'm bored...

oh, and I guess there's a #4) Do folks rely on technology today in order to pitch correct stuff when it comes to recorded material?

Cheers all..
Rich in Beautiful , but really too-little-humidified Maine

[Kevin L. Rietmann]

You're welcome to ring up Seamus on a ouijia board and ask him about it. He told Liam O'Flynn he wanted the Tara records to sound like you were listening to him play in his kitchen, which is a mindset you don't run into much anymore.
Liam O' has a DAT tape of his drones he uses, they say. I think he started doing that on the Fine Art of Piping record, where the drones are just much too perfect to be real - listen to them wobble around on the Planxty albums. Fine Art of 1s and 0s. I'm sure some pipers "punch in" too, which I find morally objectionable somehow. Viva mistakes.

[rgouette]

might hafta commission you to do my avatars amigo...

[The Sporting Pitchfork]

It's a funny thing, isn't it?

If you listen to recordings of Seamus when he was younger (say some of the things from "The Return From Fingal", for instance), there really is hardly anyone else alive or dead who could touch him. When you get to some of his later recordings, there are drones out of tune, chanter squeaks, and let's not even get started on some of the noises coming out of the regulators...If these recordings were one's first introduction to Seamus Ennis, I can see how one might not be all that impressed. Personally, I find some of his playing on the "Drones & Chanters 1" disc to be not all that pleasant to listen to at all.

Those coming from the realm of competetive Scottish piping seem to generally be the most incredulous about the way people like Seamus & Willie Clancy are revered. Most of these people have not likely heard much GHB music recorded prior to 1980: if they were to hear some of the recordings of "revered" earlier pipers such as Willie Ross, they might be surprised to hear the occasional wavering tenor drone or botched birl.

There are a few reasons, I think, for why Seamus sounded like he did when he did. For one thing, in his later years, he was in very poor health--don't forget, he died when he was only 63 years old and photographs taken in the last years of his life show someone who looked far older and more frail than someone of that age ought to look. Another important factor is that in "the old days", pipers didn't have easy access to pipemakers or reedmakers who could fix up their instruments. Pipers suffered with leaky bags, gurgling chanters, and regulators that were utterly useless and often had no idea that their problems were ones that could be easily fixed. It's just a theory, but perhaps Seamus' pipes were not in prime working order at the time some of his later recordings were made.

I think the reason why some of these later recordings are still of value is that in spite of the technical shortcomings, the musicality of the performer is still present. Seamus might not have been able to play the way he would have liked to play, but you can still hear what he was trying to get at and that is what makes it valuable to anyone trying to understand what Irish music & uilleann piping in particular is all about.

[rgouette]

Yeah, well aid.
One thing I felt when viewing, was that I was indeed watching a piece of pipering history.
Your points seem well enough thought out, I believe.

I also wondered at his playing on D&C CD when I first listened...
Just figured the recording equipment was old...

Also, hear ya loud and clear aboot the GB community.
I'm a total rouge as far as GHB: I have a set of Dunbar P-3's & I "taught" myself to play em, and even play in public from time to time.
Lucky for me , there aren't trad Scottish GHB pipers all round'

But then again, that's reason #32 why I'm into Uilleann piping: it's just more laid back...usually
Much more musical expressiveness & freedom within the instruments & players ability.
Though, if a GHB player reads this, he or she will certainly balk at the above point.

cheers!

[mattpiper]

Just watch the video of Seamus from YouTube (the piping god one). I am totally blown away--so much music.

Though I must agree, I was surprised at first by the number of squeaks and honks in his recordings (at least The Pure Drop, The Fox Chase, and his part of The Drones and the Chanters). No doubt about the music though...

edit notes: I'll learn to spell one of these days!

[mattpiper]

Double post...

[Cayden]

3) Though not a very accomplished player myself, I for one am glad whenever I hear someone of repute miss a note or let the drones wander a bit as it gives a somewhat human air to the whole complicated thing and makes the less accomplished of us, think we have a chance of making music.

During the night when first I saw Ennis play in 1972 Sean 'Ac Donnacha was singing a song, somewhere in the middle Ennis pulled out a whistle and played along with the singing. The whistle had a bit of a gurgle in it and after the night I told someone, with all the arrogance of the young and uninitiated, even I could probably have made it sound better.

Now, after listening to Ennis' music a lot, and I mean a lot, over a period of thirty years I have yet to hear anyone even approaching the amount of understanding, detail and tonal colour he put in seemingly simple strains of music. and even in (recordings of) the most routine gigs at his most tired moments there will be a tune you never heard him play before, or a little twist in his most played tunes that keeps his playing fresh and alive and the spark will invariably lift you off your seat. Gurgles, flutters or bad reed days don't matter at all when the music is there.

As Brendan Breathnach put it, a lot of his music indeed 'never fails to raise the heart, no matter how frequently played'.

[Piobairi Uilleann Inis Fa]

Now, after listening to Ennis' music a lot, and I mean a lot, over a period of thirty years I have yet to hear anyone even approaching the amount of understanding, detail and tonal colour he put in seemingly simple strains of music. and even in (recordings of) the most routine gigs at his most tired moments there will be a tune you never heard him play before, or a little twist in his most played tunes that keeps his playing fresh and alive and the spark will invariably lift you off your seat. Gurgles, flutters or bad reed days don't matter at all when the music is there.

As Brendan Breathnach put it, a lot of his music indeed 'never fails to raise the heart, no matter how frequently played'.

Amen

[emer]

exactly as Peter said.
last time I saw Seamus Ennis play was probably 1976 or '77, Slattery's in Capel Street, his set squeaked, squealed, drones wandered a bit, missed notes, but absolute magic - I had never heard such a quiet audience while someone was playing in Slattery's before.
A lot of today's players, especially the younger ones - seem to be so technicaly perfect that it can, at times, be almost boring, and the cure ? go home, take out the Ennis/Clancy cd's, turn the volume up and listen to pure genius.

[qwertymarka]

that reminds me... i need to go get some of those ennis and clancy cds... i've really only heard The Wandering Minstrel, because the local library had it to borrow. i saw they had an irish cd section and wandered over, all the while expecting some of that "celtic" music for the masses. instead i found some real irish music. made me wicked happy.

[CHasR]

Plus, all TV was live in those days, no digital delay, probably had to sit thru 40 min of chuntering on by telehost in a cold studio before he did his bit...who'd be in tune then?

Its one thing I too, cant get my GHB pals to understand...if the spirit of the music's there, who cares about the odd warble?

Case in point from another music world: Furtwangler vs. Von Karajan:

The former: attacks all over the place, fluidic ;
The latter: immaculate, precision, etc,

but the spirit of the music resided much more in the former,

Ive never heard a Furt. recording which sounded 'plastic' , contrived, unemotional, for ex., always on the edge of your seat,

but V.K., sure, its perfect, but soulless, inhumane sometimes.

Never heard Ennis recordings sound soul-less.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

What Peter said.

I'll stop now... I feel the hackles rising.........

Pat.

[AaronMalcomb]

Also, hear ya loud and clear aboot the GB community.
I'm a total rouge as far as GHB: I have a set of Dunbar P-3's & I "taught" myself to play em, and even play in public from time to time.
Lucky for me , there aren't trad Scottish GHB pipers all round'

But then again, that's reason #32 why I'm into Uilleann piping: it's just more laid back...usually
Much more musical expressiveness & freedom within the instruments & players ability.
Though, if a GHB player reads this, he or she will certainly balk at the above point.

Not balk but maybe point out that in Ennis' day there wouldn't be the 'anything goes' attitude that so many American uilleann pipers tout. And I wouldn't be surprised if attitudes aren't much different among pipers in Ireland today versus Ennis' day.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

But then again, that's reason #32 why I'm into Uilleann piping: it's just more laid back...usually
Much more musical expressiveness & freedom within the instruments & players ability.
Though, if a GHB player reads this, he or she will certainly balk at the above point.

So will any uilleann piper worth his or her salt. You have to learn to play the instrument using all the techniques available before you can go down that road. It's not the sort of thing you just pick up and away you go being expressive and free. Usually that stuff sounds like a pile of poo without the years invested in learning to play in tune and with technique.

Pat.