Copelands, why aren't they being talked about?

[regor]

Is that just my impression, or are the Copeland whistles rarely mentionned in any thread ? Burke, Abell and O'Riordans probably top the frequently-mentionned list, but what about Copeland? Where's the ".. got my new Copeland today..!" posts??

[crookedtune]

Funny, I had that very thought a few days ago. I don't think I've ever read much about them here. They're a bit above my high-end limit, and I've never had a chance to try someone else's. But I've always been curious about 'em. Any comments?

[Wombat]

Copelands can be beautiful whistles. Like all whistles, they vary a bit and they vary in ways that bother people a bit more than some other makes. I have three, two of which are absolutely wonderful whistles—a low D and low G. I also have a high D I've not bonded with to the same extent but when I played it recently with a view to perhaps selling it, I started to think it was a really nice whistle. So it isn't likely to be up for sale any time soon.

If they don't get mentioned much, it would have to be the price. Inconsistency is also a factor with Abell so that wouldn't explain it. One thing I know; if you ever get a Copeland you love you won't ever want to sell it.

[PhilO]

I guess it's all been said so many times already - they're expensive, they're classics, they're substantial conical whistles that can resonate wonderfully when Michael hits it right. I have 8, the best of which are older ones bought second hand. The low G growls like no other, the A is smooth and very well balanced, the nickel silver D and C are perfect, the Bflat is very fine but not extraordinary and there are other less expensive models that I prefer as is the case with the Low F; the Low D sets the standard, but I don't play Low D very much at all.

I guess people always expect them to be the best whistles or their favorites and they're just not always so.

I think if someone wants a really special whistle and they can afford it, it's hard to beat a Copeland soprano D whistle.

There, we talked about them; ya happy?

Philo

[manu.bande]

I guess it's all been said so many times already - they're expensive, they're classics, they're substantial conical whistles that can resonate wonderfully when Michael hits it right. I have 8, the best of which are older ones bought second hand.

Philo

Copelands can be beautiful whistles. Like all whistles, they vary a bit and they vary in ways that bother people a bit more than some other makes.

Wombat

Hi

I do not have any Copeland , unfortunatly they're too expensive for a metal whistle in my opinion !

Anyway , I've been allways wondering how comes that such high quality expensive whistles sometime have quality problems , I did see many times in this forum ; for instance , people saying that Abell's early production is much better than the new production , now I see almost the same thing with the Copelands ,

so what do you thing the cause is :

in the early production Abell or Copeland used to make the whistles themself so each step was supervised by them personally ?

Or before they had more time to spend for each whistle , but now they're too busy because the demand is way to high and there's not much time for checking properly each whistle ?

So they need some people to help them on the making process , these people are very professional but do not have that "special thing" (GIFT) that help Abell or Copeland to produce the best whistle in the market ?

Talking about wood (this is already a bit out of the topic as Copeland do not make wooden whistle for what I know so far ), probably sometime the hardwood has not been cured very well , so for the maker is impossible to prevent the way that the wood will reacts after the whistle has been done and played for a while !

However , thouse above are just some thoughts that come in my mind , wondering how is possible that such high quality expensive whistles can have quality issues ?!?!

But of course words are allways much easyer than facts , as these famous whistles are made by hand , and nobody is perfect , included me , it is impossible to have perfection for every whistle that comes out of the workshop , there's always that 1% or more % that comes out with some problem !

Perhaps for my point of view it is quiet an helpfull thing because it's keeping me with the "doubt" that helps me to stop my WOhA ! Well ,not always ( talking about my recent purchase : the Busman ) !


Having said all this , I just want to repeat that thouse are just my thoughts , and I always have very much respect for all thouse great makers , and thank's to all of them for giving the people the opportunity of play such nice instruments !

Manuel

[avanutria]

I wonder if these things run in cycles. A few years ago, Copelands were being mentioned quite a lot, and there was substantial buying and selling both here and on ebay. I remember there was a period of a few weeks where you could type "copeland whistle" on ebay and get nearly half a dozen hits.

I've played a Copeland high D but didn't really care for it. I have a Copeland Low D. I liked it so much I bought it twice.

[Jens_Hoppe]

I guess it's also a matter of Copelands not being the 'newest fad'. Hell, half the whistles being talked about these days, I haven't even heard about before.

[colomon]

It always surprises me how different the "whistles of the net" are from the ones I see people playing. I've only ever seen a couple of Copeland whistles; I got to try bustapipuh's low D five or six years back, and it seemed like a great whistle, but he sold it years ago, at a time when I really didn't have any spare cash.

O'Riordan's, on the other hand, are everywhere I look -- there are three people at our local session who regularly play one. You would never get the impression there was anything rare about them. Burke's, not so much -- there was a real fad of them six years ago, but everyone who played them then has moved on to a different whistle and/or moved away. Water Weasels, sure, most of us out here knew Glenn. You see the occasional Sindt or Abell, too.

Quite a lot of the whistles that get mentioned commonly on this board, I've never seen a person play...

[Wanderer]

Anyway , I've been allways wondering how comes that such high quality expensive whistles sometime have quality problems

Any item manufactured in the world can have quality problems.

That said, I haven't heard much about "quality problems" at either Copeland or Abell. I think I've heard someone hint that they weren't happy with thier Copeland, or heard a person or two mention that they may have shipped back for voicing, but I haven't really heard of any widespread problems.

These whistles are mostly hand-made, and I would expect that there are variations in playing characteristics from whistle to whistle. I wouldn't call that a "problem"..that's a feature. I've owned three Copelands in my life. Two were loud, strong and powerful in the bottom end, one was sweet and melodious, even in the top end. They were all great whistles.

As to earlier models being "better"...that's a bit subjective isn't it? It totally depends on what you're looking for in a whistle. And so, I can't really chalk that up to "problems" either.

I wouldn't be surprised if people occasionally got a whistle that didn't suit them, but that's not the same as "problems". I also wouldn't be surprised if once in a great while, a whistle slipped through the cracks that was just plain bad, but I imagine that's a rare event. But it's going to happen.

Sometimes I'm going to open a small bag of chips, and there's only going to be one chip in it. Sometimes, I'm going to buy a cheap whistle and the inside of the whistle will be filled with little plastic bits that need cleaning up. I once bought a brand new $70.00 business shirt and had a button come off of it the very next day. It's an imperfect world, and while we might hope that more expensive items are always perfect, it's just not possible.

[Wanderer]

It always surprises me how different the "whistles of the net" are from the ones I see people playing. I've only ever seen a couple of Copeland whistles; I got to try bustapipuh's low D five or six years back, and it seemed like a great whistle, but he sold it years ago, at a time when I really didn't have any spare cash.

O'Riordan's, on the other hand, are everywhere I look -- there are three people at our local session who regularly play one. You would never get the impression there was anything rare about them. Burke's, not so much -- there was a real fad of them six years ago, but everyone who played them then has moved on to a different whistle and/or moved away. Water Weasels, sure, most of us out here knew Glenn. You see the occasional Sindt or Abell, too.

Quite a lot of the whistles that get mentioned commonly on this board, I've never seen a person play...

I think that's a regional deal. In Houston, I saw quite a few Copelands, some Abells, and Thin Weasels, but never saw an O'Riordan until Jim Durdin let me borrow one last year. And that's out of 11 years of playing.

Tinwhistler's aren't what I'd call "common" So, I think it's really easy to get "whistle clumping" in an area, where everyone kind of revolves around a few known and liked standards. I think that probably applies here on C&F too, where the number of prolific active posters is ultimately only a couple handfuls of folks.

[Loren]

I think that's a regional deal.

Yeah, I agree, in my travels I've seen the same thing: You go to a session in one area of the country, and you'll see mostly cheap whistles, another area it's more Burkes than anything else, another area Copelands or Abells seem to be the fave. Oddly enough, I've not been anywhere that O'Riordans were common.

Often seems that a particular (expensive) whistle will be more common in a region somewhat local to the maker.

Loren

[jim stone]

Copelands are wonderful. I have one in D, one in A, and one in G.
These are extraordinary. The voicing on these whistles can
vary, however Michael and Jim are willing to revoice.

[Loren]

I do not have any Copeland , unfortunatly they're too expensive for a metal whistle in my opinion !

Too expensive in what way? Certainly not too expensive with regards to the amount of time, materials or workmanship that goes into them when compared with any wooden whistle - Copeland whistles are not an easy or simple design to make, and they are made extremely well.

Too expensive for the sound you get? You can't mean that, since you haven't played one, right?

Anyway , I've been allways wondering how comes that such high quality expensive whistles sometime have quality problems , I did see many times in this forum ; for instance , people saying that Abell's early production is much better than the new production , now I see almost the same thing with the Copelands

No that's really not what has been said: I don't recall ever hearing of a poorly made Copeland or Abell whistle on this forum. Abells from different periods seem to sound different to some of us, but they all sound good, and as far as I can recall, they've all been reported as being extremely well made.

With Copelands, again, I don't recall ever having heard anyone complain that they got one that wasn't well made, only that perhaps the voicing (sound) didn't suit them, which is not a quality problem. Some might have said over the years that at one point Copeland whistles were somewhat inconsistent with regards to voicing/sound but this is a matter of taste, and the quality has always been quite good.

so what do you thing the cause is..... :

The things you mentioned after that don't apply, imo, because the makers you mentioned (Abell and Copeland) turn out some of the very finest whistles you can buy, and as I said, I don't believe quality has been an issue for either of these makers. Certainly some of the things you've mentioned could apply to some other makers though......

Talking about wood (this is already a bit out of the topic as Copeland do not make wooden whistle for what I know so far ), probably sometime the hardwood has not been cured very well , so for the maker is impossible to prevent the way that the wood will reacts after the whistle has been done and played for a while !

Well, this can be true, but I'm not going to get into details (and don't write me privately about this folks) because I'd be making enemies of many of my wooden whistle making friends here if I stated publicly my opinions on wood seasoning. Let it suffice to say that I have visited Mr. Abell's workshop, and I can tell you, without a doubt, that he seasons his wood longer and better than probably any other whistle maker in the world. IMO, this is why you rarely hear of or see a cracked Abell whistle. And when you do, it's usually on a special order instrument made from a wood that Chris doesn't normally stock. Since most people are not willing to wait 5 years or more for a whistle, the process of seasoning isn't the same for some of these whistles, because the maker can't do much to speed up the seasoning process of just purchased wood.

However , thouse above are just some thoughts that come in my mind , wondering how is possible that such high quality expensive whistles can have quality issues ?!?!

Again, I'd submit that the makers you've listed do not have quality issues.

But of course words are allways much easyer than facts , as these famous whistles are made by hand , and nobody is perfect , included me , it is impossible to have perfection for every whistle that comes out of the workshop , there's always that 1% or more % that comes out with some problem !

No, this is not necessarily true - Certainly not every whistle produced in a shop will be perfect, however, what leaves the shop is another matter: Some makers may be content to sell any instrument that comes off the assembly line, while others refuse to sell any instrument that doesn't meet very high standards. Where I worked we put more than a few very nice instruments in the vice and crushed them, because while they would put most other maker's similar instruments to shame, they weren't up to our standards. Perhaps this is one reason that company is still in business after 40 years, and still has a reputation as perhaps the world's finest maker of those particular type of instruments?

To be honest, in retrospect, I think it may have been a waste of perfectly good Boxwood, which is becoming rare, however it wasn't my business, nor my choice to make.

Having said all this , I just want to repeat that thouse are just my thoughts , and I always have very much respect for all thouse great makers , and thank's to all of them for giving the people the opportunity of play such nice instruments !

Manuel

Fair enough, and hopefully you'll get to play a Copeland and an Abell, and some of the other really fine whistles one day - you may even find, at that point, that you think the Copeland is well worth the money!


Loren

[amar]

I've got a Bb and a lowD, both brass. I love the sound, an open, flutey sound.

[Wombat]

I have a vague recollection of someone claiming on this board they had a Copeland with faulty intonation that hadn't been rectified when sent back. I have not personally found a Copeland with this problem and I'd buy another, old or new, confident that it wouldn't have it.

The only feature I have noticed which might be called a fault is a noticeable leap in volume at or around second octave B (or equivalent on non-D whistles). I've played a Copeland which seemed to have this problem but the ones I own are fine. I've heard of others having this problem so my experience wasn't just a once off. Perhaps breath control is all that is needed to overcome it, but I can imagine someone paying a lot of money and being disappointed if they found a feature like this.