Altitude and humidity

[swizzlestick]

and temperature of course. They all affect tuning. I live in Colorado so all my playing is above 5,000 feet -- sometimes above 9 or 10,000 feet. It's usually very dry here and often cool. I love this climate, but it all tends to make a whistle play flat.

This was driven home yesterday when I ran across this tuning calculator that factors in all three influences: http://www.interopp.org/flute/htm/crosstune.htm

I am thinking about cutting some of my whistle tubes shorter so I have more range to tune sharp. Has anyone else had the need to do this because of altitude or climate?

[crookedtune]

Buy a bunch in different lengths, and stash them in the woods at various altitudes around your home town.

[Loren]

I would suggest not cutting your whistles down, as this is a rather permanent "solution" that will, in essence, make the whistles unsaleable, or at least undesirable, to anyone who lives near sea level, and it won't solve your problem, really because you will be permanently altering the intonation of the instrument's scale, since that intonation is based on the total length of the instrument, plus the distance of each hole from the window. Cutting the whistle down will make it play forever out of tune with itself, and A=440, and the effect will be even more noticable at sea level.

Shortening the tube will raise the pitch, however you will not be able to alter the tone hole spacing, and the more you move the tuning slide, once you've shortened the tube, the more out of tune the entire scale becomes with itself, because the as you move a tuning slide, the ratio of distance from each hole to the window changes, but these ratios are different for each hole - the highest uppermost hole moves a far greater percentage of it's distance, relative to the window than the bottom hole, and this what throws the scale/intonation out of whack as you move tuning slides more than a short distance from their "Ideal" position.





Loren

[brewerpaul]

Fascinating. I had no idea that those factors could make such a large difference within the ranges of variation that we commonly experience.

[Loren]

Yeah, that's a cool calculator, isn't it Paul?


Loren

[Reyburnwhistles]

Yes.... to what Loren said. So best not to cut the tubes down. I had an indepth discusssion on the flute forum regarding the altitude issue and came to the conclusion that the altitude was not a factor in the tuning. Except for its influence on relative humidity and temperature ( the higher one goes the colder it is and the humidity shifts). However, the temperature and relative humidity ARE the major factors in tuning an instrument. For me I use 70 degrees F (21 C) and 60% relative humidity as a standard and calibrate my tuner based on those figures.

A lot of people think that when their whistle is warmed up the temperature is not a factor, but I think its really about the transmission of the sound frequency thru the air at a given temperature which affects the perceived frequency. Higher temperature equals less dense air and thus less resistance to travel to the listener (or tuner) so it gets there faster and has a higher pitch. So when its warmer one has to pull out their tuning slide to get to a perceived pitch of A=440. This is similar to the doppler affect one hears when an approaching train is blowing its whistle. As it approaches the tone increases its frequency (goes sharp)as a result of the added speed of the train to the sound wave and when it is going away from you it decreases (goes flat).

Tricky business, huh?

Ronaldo

[swizzlestick]

Thanks for the comments.

Please don't think I am about to chop up my favorite whistles! I was only thinking about experiments with some old, cheap ones.

The calculator sparked this interest. I suspect temperature is the main issue, but altitude and humidity are also pushing in the wrong direction. (And how would I really know without some way to accurately measure the pressure and humidity?) It does help explain why some whistles have seemed hard to tune as sharp as I would like.

I can see how the calculator might be some help in tuning for a different location if you have several instruments to consider.

On the other hand, how in tune do you need to be in the mountains most of the time?

[Dale]

Thought this thread was "Attitude and Humility" when I first saw it.

[jim stone]

FWIW, I've played whistles in Colorado without undue
flatness--even busked on the Pearl Street Mall.
Made no money at all, however. Two little girls
playing violins made all the money.

Is it possible you have some flat whistles?

[Alcona]

Thought this thread was "Attitude and Humility" when I first saw it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Loren]

Yes, the Pearl Street crowd is a bit jaded, plus the buskers there are usually quite good.

Hey Swizzle, is the contortion guy still a Pearl street regular?


Loren

[LisaD]

and temperature of course. They all affect tuning. I live in Colorado so all my playing is above 5,000 feet -- sometimes above 9 or 10,000 feet. It's usually very dry here and often cool. I love this climate, but it all tends to make a whistle play flat.

This was driven home yesterday when I ran across this tuning calculator that factors in all three influences: http://www.interopp.org/flute/htm/crosstune.htm

I am thinking about cutting some of my whistle tubes shorter so I have more range to tune sharp. Has anyone else had the need to do this because of altitude or climate?

You know, that's really odd. I live in Colorado, and my whistles seem flat too ... some makers mark a little line on the tube to show where "correct pitch" is, and I always have to push the mouthpiece in much further than that, sometimes all the way. I just thought that I happened to have flat whistles, but maybe it's something else. I can't think why altitude/humidity would affect this, though, especially with non-wood whistles.