How Irish is Irish music?

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:12 pm

The Tony McMahon quote reminds me of the scene at the end of the Commitments where Jimmy Rabbite is interviewing himself. If I remember correctly "That sounds profound Jimmy, but what does it mean?"... I suspect once I know, I will understand why the answer is not straight forward.

Regarding GBS I was thinking "Great Big Sea" but George Bernard Shaw sounds good too. I like his plays but I don't think he wrote anything musical. I sort of remember a song that mentioned him: "George Bernard Shaw is a man you know well..." and had the chorus "Oh the Sea, Oh the Sea, I'm glad it still flows between England and me." I guess this sort of links the two GBS's.

I have started cornering friends knowledgeable in Irish music to find out what is worth listening too. So far I have come up with Liam O'Flynn (I like his playing but I am not so fond of the orchestral stuff) and the Chieftains (apparently their earlier stuff is better). There are other titles like Matt Molloy, Shanachie, Green Linnet, Bathy Bard, Planxty, Lunsasa, Dervish, and Lark in the Morning which I have not yet explored.

djm · Post by **djm** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:25 pm

johnkerr wrote:GBS? George Bernard Shaw?

Great Big Sea = modern trad group from Newfounland

SteveB wrote:the term "Newfy" (or "Newfie" as is it most often spelled), is considered a bit derogatory by many Newfoundlanders these days

My family is from Halifax, NS.

djm

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:13 pm

Brian Boru wrote:The Tony McMahon quote reminds me of the scene at the end of the Commitments where Jimmy Rabbite is interviewing himself. If I remember correctly "That sounds profound Jimmy, but what does it mean?"... I suspect once I know, I will understand why the answer is not straight forward.

Regarding GBS I was thinking "Great Big Sea" but George Bernard Shaw sounds good too. I like his plays but I don't think he wrote anything musical. I sort of remember a song that mentioned him: "George Bernard Shaw is a man you know well..." and had the chorus "Oh the Sea, Oh the Sea, I'm glad it still flows between England and me." I guess this sort of links the two GBS's.

I have started cornering friends knowledgeable in Irish music to find out what is worth listening too. So far I have come up with Liam O'Flynn (I like his playing but I am not so fond of the orchestral stuff) and the Chieftains (apparently their earlier stuff is better). There are other titles like Matt Molloy, Shanachie, Green Linnet, Bathy Bard, Planxty, Lunsasa, Dervish, and Lark in the Morning which I have not yet explored.

I'd like to recommend a few CDs, which shouldn't be too hard to find. Two are pretty "old school," they're all very different from eachother, but they're all very irish.
* "Milestone at the Garden"
* Elizabeth Crotty
* Maeve Donnelly & Peadar O'Loughlin "The thing itself"
* Tap Room Trio

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:02 pm

Thanks for the suggestions on CDs. Also, thanks to everyone for responding and giving such helpful and insightful answers.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:04 pm

Peter Laban wrote:
B wrote:Hang out at his place and listen to all his CDs.
So that's why you came over

Busted.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:25 pm

Brian Boru wrote:Bathy Bard

I believe that would be "Bothy Band"

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:01 pm

bradhurley wrote:
Brian Boru wrote:Bathy Bard
I believe that would be "Bothy Band"

I'd hope so...

Bathy Bard doesn't sound at all Irish, does it?

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:12 pm

Brian Boru wrote:The Tony McMahon quote reminds me of the scene at the end of the Commitments where Jimmy Rabbite is interviewing himself. If I remember correctly "That sounds profound Jimmy, but what does it mean?"... I suspect once I know, I will understand why the answer is not straight forward.

In response to the MacMahon quote, I'd say that the music that speaks to me the most, at least as far as traditional music goes, comes from people who seem to have approached the music on a humble level, as a true student. The successful cases seem to be rare in which someone arrogantly decided at an early stage that they truly understood and mastered the tradition, and decided that they had something valuable to say by broadcasting their own take on it. In fact, much of the music that I love comes from players who had to be coaxed into recording, because they don't consider their music to be a product.

Obviously, I'm making assumptions about peoples' thought processes, so I'm not going to name any names in this case, but I do believe it to be true.

rh · Post by rh » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:44 pm

Speaking of Tony MacMahon, i think a fine place to start listening would be In Knocknagree by Noel Hill & Tony MacMahon.

Another classic recording at the same site is An Historic Recording Of Irish Traditional Music, by Paddy Canny, P. Joe Hayes, Peadar O'Loughlin and Bridie Lafferty.

some others to check out:

Mary Bergin, whistle

John Carty, fiddle and banjo

Tommy Peoples, fiddle

Laurence Nugent, whistle and flute, a personal favorite but maybe not to everyone's liking

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 1:42 pm

One of the big differences I can hear right away between the Irish Rovers and the CDs suggested here is that I can play along with the Irish Rovers without much practice

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:41 pm

Brian Boru wrote:One of the big differences I can hear right away between the Irish Rovers and the CDs suggested here is that I can play along with the Irish Rovers without much practice

Well, the Irish Rovers are playing Irish music, so are the Clancy Brothers and the Dubliners, it's just not what most people would call "Irish Traditional Music" - it's geared for the concert stage and the mass audience. It's a separate genre of Irish music from traditional music. A modern equivalent of the Irish Rovers might be groups like Great Big Sea, etc., whereas bands like Planxty, the Bothy Band, Altan, and Lunasa might be seen in yet a different genre of Irish music altogether...they're playing traditional tunes but with modern arrangements and approaches that appeal to a broader audience. It's like "traditional music lite," except that the individual musicians in these groups are virtuosos so to call it "lite" would be an insult. But it's true that what they're doing is a step removed from a lone fiddler playing by the fire or for a group of dancers in a house.

This conversation reminds me of that scene in the movie "Crocodile Dundee" where a New York City mugger threatens Croc and his girlfriend with a dagger, and she screams, "watch out, he's got a knife!" but Croc says calmly, "that's not a knife, THIS is a knife," and pulls out his 18-inch hunting knife. Of course the mugger had a knife, and Croc had a knife; they were just two very different kinds of knives. But they were knives all the same. Similarly, it's wrongheaded to say "The Irish Rovers aren't Irish music, Junior Crehan is Irish music." They're both Irish music, just different kinds of it.

Some people are drawn to the pure traditional music straightaway; there's something real about it that grabs them, while for others the pure stuff is hard to appreciate in the beginning. So don't feel bad if you find some of the stuff recommended here unlistenable...give it time and eventually you might like it. Or not.

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:54 pm

Speaking of Altan, I was recently listening to one of their tunes called The King of Meenasillagh, and it kind of reminded my untrained ear of the Red River Jig favored by Metis on the Prairies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8txmJPbBPLA

I would have thought the main European influences on the Metis would have been French and Scottish.

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:21 pm

Would Green Grow the Rushes be considered Irish or "Irish Lite"

Brian.

Brian Boru · Post by **Brian Boru** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 6:35 pm

Brian Boru wrote:Would Green Grow the Rushes be considered Irish or "Irish Lite"

Brian.

My bad. I just checked...it's by Robert Burns. So... I guess it's Scottish

colomon · Post by **colomon** » Thu Oct 26, 2006 9:06 pm

Brian Boru wrote:Speaking of Altan, I was recently listening to one of their tunes called The King of Meenasillagh, and it kind of reminded my untrained ear of the Red River Jig favored by Metis on the Prairies.

I would have thought the main European influences on the Metis would have been French and Scottish.

While I don't know anything about that particular Altan tune, you've got to remember that these tunes get around. Dervish, for instance, recorded a tune they called after Cape Breton fiddler Jerry Holland -- but the tune's actually from Metis fiddler Andy Dejarlis.