Reading music; old debate- still a good one (me thinks)

[DreamOgreen]

Please don't shoot... this is not a declaration of war, only an opinion. After going through the threads on this forum regarding learning whistle by ear vs. by reading sheet music. It seems that the majority favor the ear method with a lesser number either learning and playing by reading music or a reading/ear combination. I have to say from the start that I personally read and play directly from the music and could not imagine being able to enjoy whistle playing very much while hearing my own squeeks and bad notes trying to learn a particular song by trial and error. I would agree with the opinions regarding picking up the rythm and flow of a tune better by listening to other good players and trying to emulate the style. I have found that aspect of trying to play from music the most lacking , especially when I play a tune as written and it sounds little like how I have heard others play it. Recently though, I've noticed that it's really pretty easy to just change the rythm of what you're playing to suit how you "feel" it should sound like, ditto on the ornamentation that you would like to throw in there. It still is nice however to be able to practice for an hour and never play the same tune twice. It just makes the playing more fun. (imho) So sight reading and playing from the music is (at least for me) a nice way to enjoy playing the whistle and have a bit of fun doing it. If the future bring me into contact with others playing in a group session, I would think that by then the sound of the notes with there respective fingerings would be so burned into the brain that picking up tunes by ear would be a bit easier. I hope not to have offended anybody on this board because I know that playing stricktly by ear is a tried and true method that works for many. It just seems sensible that other newbies out there should feel free to learn in whatever way they want without feeling that only one way is best. Happy whistl'in....... Robert

[BillChin]

Enjoy your music.

If the majority favors something and a person likes something else, fine by me.

[riverman]

The nice thing about whistle music is the freedom. I am free from carrying music; I can rip of many tunes wherever I am! I learned most of these tunes from written music; I like that much better then the "trial and error" of fingering many wrong notes to find the right one. But even there, the whistle rocks. We CAN find the right notes by trial and error!
These are the times it's best to be alone!

[Innocent Bystander]

By ear is best, if you can manage it. But some of us aren't near a session, or don't get to hear a lot of music for a boatload of reasons. The more tools you have in your workbox, the better your chances of dealing with a problem. Reading music is an extra tool. ABC is an extra tool. Do what you need to do to get the music into your head and your fingertips.

Blow, ye whistler! Set the wild echoes flying!

[Wanderer]

Peter Laban has posted pictures of study materials commonly given out to students in Ireland. They seem to consist of a form of home-grown ABC format, where someone hand writes "A A A C D D" etc on a piece of paper.

I submit that this is a form of sheet music, perhaps less developed and more practical for folk music, but sheet music nonetheless.

[brewerpaul]

I'm a big fan of reading music, as long as the traditional or semi-trad player keeps in mind that the written notes are just the bare skeleton of the tune. They're a wonderful way to have access to thousands of tunes, but as they're written they're lacking the real music of the thing which only enters when the player has listened to a LOT of the real thing.

[Cayden]

I think you can learn tunes from paper, but not music.

[crookedtune]

I'm a big fan of reading music, as long as the traditional or semi-trad player keeps in mind that the written notes are just the bare skeleton of the tune. They're a wonderful way to have access to thousands of tunes, but as they're written they're lacking the real music of the thing which only enters when the player has listened to a LOT of the real thing.

Yes. What he said.
My advice: DO learn to read music, and then use it as a secondary tool to your own ear.

[Talbert St. Claire]

Training your ear lends itself to wonderful improvisational skills. This learned skill becomes a really great tool for playing this type of music where improvisation is very useful and welcomed (that is in all the right places. Not to much improv otherwise you'll lose the essense of the tune).

[colomon]

I think I agree with Peter. Learning the notes is an important part of learning a tune, and it doesn't really matter much how you do that -- sheet music is fine here. But learning the notes is only maybe at best a third of the process of learning the music of a tune. The stuff that really counts and makes the music special can only be learned by listening to good players playing that tune. The shadings of rhythm and accent, the variations, etc.

True story. A couple of years ago I was flipping through Trip to Sligo, looking for cool tunes. And right there in the section for my hero Peter Horan, I found a great one, "Andy McGann's". And what I immediately did was start an epic quest to find a good recording of it. I asked around several different places on the Internet looking for a better name for it. I bought several CDs that had recordings of the tune, but none captured what I liked about Peter's version. I poured over hours of recordings of Peter Horan workshops trying to find it, without success. Finally I got him to play it for me this summer and recorded him. Now I listen to that recording 4 or 5 times a week. And in a couple more months, once it has soaked in properly, it won't matter how I learn the notes, from the sheet music or using a slow-downer tool on the MP3, because I'll have the essence of the tune. (At least as well as someone of my meagre abilities can pick it up from a single recording.)

[Wormdiet]

Everybody needs to learn to listen. Reading notes doesn't help with that.

Learning tunes by ear is a SKILL. Many people get confused by this and consider it a TALENT or GIFT, that some people have and others do not. And these people therefore feel absolved from needing to learn how to ear-learn. I had this misconception myself, and then realized that it was total crap.

Ear learning takes time and practice, but it is more efficient in many respects in the long run, and develops listening skills concurrently.

I like sheet music as an archival record of a tune or as a way to communicate a variation (in the absence of a recording), but that's about it.

[straycat82]

I remember when I first started getting into Irish music many years ago and I could not distinguish any tunes or parts in a set. If a musician or group played a set of three or four reels it all sounded like one "song" to my untrained ear. Now that I have spent years listening to the music, I can hear a set of tunes that I've never heard before and tell what kind of tunes they are (jigs, reels, etc.), I can distinguish between the A and B parts and I can tell where one tune ends and the next begins. I think these are the most basic and essential beginnings of the skill of listening to Irish music. After that skill is developed your mind will find it easier to pick up subtleties in pitch, tone, pulse, rhythm, ornamentation, etc. You get out of it what you put into it; the more you listen the more you'll hear. I'm still (and perhaps always will be) on that journey.

[Bloomfield]

I think you can learn tunes from paper, but not music.

I think that's it in a nutshell.

[Wanderer]

I think you can learn tunes from paper, but not music.

I agree with this 100%

[Denny]

I think you can learn tunes from paper, but not music.

yup!

and the usual...
"the above is not genre specific"