Playing the higher octaves

Morred · Post by **Morred** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:23 pm

I'm a beginner with the whistle and at the moment I've got serious problems to play the 2. or 3. octave which has to be played by "overblowing", as I read. I know that means blowing harder than for the first octave, but I really don't get it. If I do so, it just sounds horrible and doesn't give any nice sound. Does anybody have any idea for me how to improve this?

Screeeech!!! · Post by **Screeeech!!!** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:29 pm

Some whistles just sound pooh in the second octave.

Some whistles need good breath control to make them sound nice.

Some whistles play nicely with ease.

What whistle are you playing?

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:43 pm

To hit the second octave cleaning and without it being overpowering takes practice.

The third octave is only used in certain very rare situations. I wouldn't mess with the 3rd octave until you are much further along.

Start with the first octave, and try to play with the cleanest, clearest sound you can, especially on the lowest notes. Really relax the jaw and throat, but make sure you are still supporting the air all the way up from the diaphragm, even when you are blowing your softest.

Then start moving up into the second octave. Blow a bit harder, and tighten the muscles of the throat and jaw, and also tighten your lips around the whistle. The idea is to move the air faster but to control the amount of air you are delivering to the whistle.

It takes practice. Work on trying to get first octave G up through second octave G to be as clear and clean as you can get them. Then extend the exercise downwards to include low F-sharp, E, and D, and upwards to include A and B.

Good luck, and welcome to the boards!

--James

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:50 pm

James' practice tips are good ones. What whistle is this that you are having problems playing?

Mitch · Post by **Mitch** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:00 pm

Hi Morred, welcome to C&F!

The usual problem with this happens because you are starting in the 2nd octave - here's how to check:

1. Cover the top 3 tone holes =XXXOOO (usually left hand fingers 1 2 and 3 - no pinky)
2. Blow into the mouthpiece VERY softly - you should get a very quiet wobbly note.
3. Gradually increase the blowing - the note should stabilise - This is the first octave. If your whistle is in D this note is G
4. Gradually increase the blowing some more - the note should begin to break-up.
5. Gradually increase the blowing even more - the note should stabilise again - This is the second octave. If you blow any harder the whistle will just shreek.

Do step 1 again with 4 holes covered =XXXXOO, then 5 =XXXXXO then 6 =XXXXXX - with 6 holes covered, and blowing very softly, you will have the lowest note on the whistle.

Then try this - lift the top finger to open the top hole - keep the rest covered = OXXXXX . the note should automatically slip to the 2nd octave.

Then play =XXXXXO the note should want to go to the next note in the 2nd octave - it may slip down to the 1st octave but you can puff a little harder to keep it in the 2nd, then try =XXXXOO, =XXXOOO, XXOOOO etc ..

If none of this helps - you may be not sealing the holes properly - it helps to look and feel.

If it's still a problem, there might be a problem with the whistle - what kind of whistle is it?

Hope this helps

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:10 am

Ahem!.... Technical Term Police here

The word "Octave" is incorrect. The proper term is "Register". Reason? The 3rd "register" is only a 5th above the previous. It is the 4th register that is 2 "Octaves" above the Fundamental scale.

See "Harmonic Scale" in any musical dictionary. The frequency divisions between the harmonic notes are the same as those for each register.

OBrien · Post by **OBrien** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:18 am

Ahem, ahem.

Grammar police- octave is a noun, not a verb.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:50 am

O'Brien wrote:Ahem, ahem.

Grammar police- octave is a noun, not a verb.

Loren

straycat82 · Post by **straycat82** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:15 am

3rd Register? I'm sorry, the correct answer was: OUCH!!! Why the heck would you want to play that?

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:56 am

For me, a big help was realizing what James mentioned; the idea is to move the air faster. It's more than just blowing harder. There are subtle changes in the mouth and possibly the throat that take place.

Think of simply whistling with your lips. Whistling a higher note is more than just blowing harder, it's done by changing your lips and tongue to get the effect. It's not exactly the same as blowing through a whistle, but the concept is similar.

If you're trying to play in the upper register by blowing harder alone, then you'll probably get a bad sound because you're trying to muscle the whistle into the next register instead of coaxing it.

Jason

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:01 am

An octave encompasses the notes between a note of frequency x and its next-higher counterpart of frequency 2x; for example, from A at 440 Hz to A at 880 Hz is an octave.

On the whistle, from low D to middle D is an octave; from middle D to high (3rd octave) D is an octave.

Thus, you can speak of playing in the first or second octave.

Respectfully,

--James

Crysania · Post by **Crysania** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:42 pm

More technical terming here.

You are referring to the overtone series.

Not the harmonic scale. If one looked up the "harmonic scale," they'd be likely to come up with the "harmonic minor scale" which is a WHOLE different animal.

And as peeplj said, they're still octaves. Only on the clarinet, can they refer to them as "registers" without them also being octave (clarinet skips tones in the overtone series).

~Crysania

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:54 am

In whistledom, the high notes sort out the good from bad instruments. As someone pointed out, if the high end is scratchy, it's not necessariy your fault. Try tweaking it (instructions on this web site) or buy a better one. Hoovers, Jerry Friedmans tweaked whistles, Syns are all fairly low cost and good. Burkes cost more and are good. Or you can skip all the intermediate stuff and go for the gold...eg: Abell.
Beware, not every expensive whistle is high performance (pun intended). If you post a thread here telling people how much you are willing to spend, you'll get good suggetions.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am

Also note that there are some truly spectacular whistles out there which require a certain degree of skill to control the high notes.

Even whistles like Burkes and Hoovers, which are known for the sweetness and ease of play on the highest notes, will play still better yet for someone who understands how to control the whistle.

I play an Overton now, and it's the finest whistle I've ever had the privilege to play--but you have to know how to play it. I don't think a complete beginner would find it very easy to play, and they would probably have real problems hitting the highest notes and controlling them.

--James

Morred · Post by **Morred** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:12 pm

Thank you for so many answers! It's working a bit better now, but I think I just have to practise some more. The label of my whistle says "Faedóg", and that it is made in Ireland. I don't know if that's a good one or a bad one.
Concerning octaves and registers, the English language isn't my mother tongue; so sorry for leading you into that discussion