Tonguing too noisy?

[franco]

Has anyone else had this issue? I have not been practising recently, but was listening to a recording I made of myself a couple of years back. I noticed that when I am tonguing I stop the flow of air with my tongue, then when I let my tongue go again there is a bit of a "tuh" sound.

It is hard to describe, but basically it inteferes with the flow of the music and sounds like a valve opening and shutting. It is far too loud. I am thinking of trying to tongue to the back of my teeth instead of the roof of my mouth which I was doing. I have an overbite, which doesn't help.

Also, when I was searching the archives someone mentioned Jean Michelle Veillon had given advice about "tongue placement". Does anyone know where that info is?

[crookedtune]

I'm a new fluter, so not the best source for information. But on both flute and whistle I soon became aware that I was tonguing entirely too much. I'm getting a much smoother, more flowing sound by reducing the tonguing to almost nothing and concentrating on using cuts, rolls, etc... (from the fingers). I also use some glottal (throat) stops, but again, I use them sparingly.

Doing this gives me a sound that is much less stuccato, and more traditional and appealing, IMO.

[Congratulations]

First of all: it is best, at this point, to err on the side of not tonguing, as Crookedtune said.

As for your problem, it just sounds like you're tonguing too hard. Try thinking about using a "dah" or a "dee" sound, rather than "tah." Think about using less tongue, keeping your tongue relaxed, that sort of thing.

Also, could it be that you're drastically changing your embouchure when you're tonguing?

[treeshark]

This is something that foxed me at first too (and still comes back to haunt me occasionaly) A lot of folks here will say don't tongue use glottal stops, but I feel if you want the most expression you should try to learn both. Try varying the touch of the tongue the roof is I feel better than too near the teeth. Use Duh rather than Tuh with a bit of experiment you will find that you can produce every degree of hardness from hard to almost imperceptable. Play notes slowly at first so you can really tell what you are doing with your tongue, it takes a lot of practice for it to be automatic!
I do feel the flute is more sensitive to the way you tongue than a whistle.
Other combinations you can use for triplets are TuKuTa, DuGuDa and last but not least DiDiLe.

[michael_coleman]

I use both glottal stops and tonguing. Tonguing comes much more naturally to me than glottal stopping, but at the beginning of phrases where a clean note needs some punch a glottal stop is hard to beat. Start using both and you will see that glottal stops fit better in certain places than tonguing and it will improve the style of the tune.

[Ro3b]

Think of the T sound in the middle of "kitty." It's just a little flick of the tongue. That's what you're after.

(Interestingly, the way most people pronounce "kitten" uses a glottal stop in lieu of a T sound. There's a lesson there, somewhere.)

[fyffer]

Think of the T sound in the middle of "kitty." It's just a little flick of the tongue. That's what you're after.

(Interestingly, the way most people pronounce "kitten" uses a glottal stop in lieu of a T sound. There's a lesson there, somewhere.)

You know, I thought I had the idea of the glottal stop until I read that last parenthetical ephiphany.

In the words of someone, "Eureka!"

P.S.
Two great names for tunes: "The Glottal Stop", and "Parenthetical Epiphany".

[Dave Parkhurst]

this thread title leaves so many possibilities for responses that would move into the "Pub Forum" that I just don't have the heart to pull the trigger....

Cheers,
Dave

[franco]

Thanks for the replies. I don't use glottal stops at all. In fact, I'm not even sure I want that type of sound. I think Mike McGoldrick uses them sometimes.

I basically know what I need to do and that is practise. I started this thread to see if I could get any tips to keep in mind. I will not go for the roof of the mouth anymore because it seems to promote the tuh sound. I am not sure about the difference between tuh and duh because a hard D or T will give me the same result.

Actually an S sound to the back of my teeth makes more sense. I'm told I have a lisp in any case so there you go.

Oh, I disagree about the not tonguing thing and using ornaments instead. I prefer a sound that has ornaments, but is well articulated as well. I guess it is just down to what sound you want.

[skh]

Thanks for the replies. I don't use glottal stops at all. In fact, I'm not even sure I want that type of sound. I think Mike McGoldrick uses them sometimes.

He surely does, but a glottal stop is not an effect, so you shouldn't hear them, other than that you hear the difference between glottal stops and slurring or tongueing.

It's what you do with your throat -- the vocal chords, to be precise -- when you say "Uh-oh". It is used in (irish) fluting to separate notes from each other, instead of tongueing. You should at least try it.

cheers,
Sonja

[Bojax]

Sorry to beat a warhorse topic to death, but I cannot find a decent definition of what a glottal stop is!?

Is it simply like tonguing, but you're using a "K" sound instead of a "T?"

Kuh instead of Tuh?

[Bojax]

Just re-read the above post... If I say "uh" as in "uh-oh" while blowing into my flute, is that it? I do see how that is different that pronouncing a K sound...

[Cubitt]

A glottal stop (or "throating," as Grey Larsen likes to call it) should be used sparingly. On flute, articulation should primarily be done with the fingers, much as a piper would do. Some tonguing and throating is fine, but certainly not at all as it would be done in classical music or jazz. That is, if you want to play in the Irish style.

[Aanvil]

this thread title leaves so many possibilities for responses that would move into the "Pub Forum" that I just don't have the heart to pull the trigger....

Cheers,
Dave

Whew... and I thought it was just me.

[MJS]

As I sit here at the computer whistling a tune while reading your post, it suddenly dawns on me that glottal stops are what I'm using to articulate rhythm while whistling!! Duh! I think I get it too, finally!
Thanks!