whistle intonation?

amblingambrosia · Post by **amblingambrosia** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:06 am

Generally, what are considered to be the whistles with the absolute best intonation? I know that Burkes are generally regarded as having perfect intonation. Also GFM seems to have that reputation. S.Z.B.E. is another with really good intonation (as far as I've read at least). Are there any i'm missing? I read last night where someone commended original clarkes for having near-perfect intonation. is this true? What are some other really well in-tune whistles?

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:16 am

On the more inexpensive side, Susatos are known for good intonation.

--James

Bretton · Post by **Bretton** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:16 am

I don't know that I've ever come across a wistle with anything near perfect intonation. Pretty good intonation, for a whistle, is about the best I've found.
You might get really good intonation in one octave but the other will be off.

I am interested in what others have to say on this topic...

-Brett

arnie · Post by **arnie** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:29 am

Never expect perfection, don't even seek for it. The imperfection makes the beauty, just because of it

amblingambrosia · Post by **amblingambrosia** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:53 am

so burkes dont really have the "perfect" intonation ive read about?

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:05 am

My Burkes really are pretty much spot-on. As is my Overton...fact is, most of my whistles are really pretty well in tune.

No woodwind instruments are made which are 100% in tune by themselves, of course--someone has to play them.

--James

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:57 pm

To go a step farther, my Burke is kinda difficult to play out of tune, while my Susato is easy to push around with the air. I find Gen Bb tubes impossible to get in tune without some tweaking, but others have different (and more) experience.

And let's define 'perfect'. Is 4-5 cents out OK? How about half a cent? Some can hear half-cent discrepancies on certain notes in a tune, but I'm not one of them (thank goodness).

amblingambrosia · Post by **amblingambrosia** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:07 pm

i would say, to me, more than 5 cents is "out of tune". im picky about intonation because i've grown up in the more "classical" world of music. i've played clarinet for some time, and have been singing seriously in choirs for a few years, and so my ear is just very sensitive to intonation. i don't think i could pick up a half-cent discrepancy, but more than 5 cents i could definitely notice and it would bother me.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:24 pm

amblingambrosia wrote:i would say, to me, more than 5 cents is "out of tune". im picky about intonation because i've grown up in the more "classical" world of music. i've played clarinet for some time, and have been singing seriously in choirs for a few years, and so my ear is just very sensitive to intonation. i don't think i could pick up a half-cent discrepancy, but more than 5 cents i could definitely notice and it would bother me.

If you get more serious with Irish traditional music, you may find your auditory tastes changing a bit.

Years ago, when I first heard the Chieftains in some of their early recordings, I remember wincing and thinking "My God! That's so horribly out of tune!"

Now I listen to the same recordings and find they are perfectly well in tune.

The recordings haven't changed.

Curiosity: have you ever played around with just temper, or any of the non-equal tempers? If so than you'll be miles ahead of where I was when I first came to IrTrad.

--James

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:40 pm

peeplj wrote:
Years ago, when I first heard the Chieftains in some of their early recordings, I remember wincing and thinking "My God! That's so horribly out of tune!"

Now I listen to the same recordings and find they are perfectly well in tune.

The recordings haven't changed.

--James

The first time I heard Boil the Breakfast Early I thought the same thing about Paddy Maloney's pipes. And likewise I have found that with time I can hear that they are perfectly in tune.

dfernandez77 · Post by **dfernandez77** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:15 pm

Chiffed wrote:To go a step farther, my Burke is kinda difficult to play out of tune, while my Susato is easy to push around with the air.

I'll agree, Burke's are easier to play in tune. Overtons have great intonation (can be played smack in tune), yet they allow incredible flexibility for note bending and such. Reyburns play in tune and have flexibility, though not as much as Overtons. Schutlz Whistles (Weasels) are usually bang on too.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:34 pm

amblingambrosia wrote:i would say, to me, more than 5 cents is "out of tune". im picky about intonation because i've grown up in the more "classical" world of music. i've played clarinet for some time, and have been singing seriously in choirs for a few years, and so my ear is just very sensitive to intonation. i don't think i could pick up a half-cent discrepancy, but more than 5 cents i could definitely notice and it would bother me.

Uh Oh, the world of IrTrad may drive you insane then.....

"Intonation" is a very relative term, with regards to these sorts of instruments, more so than modern chromatic band instruments like the clarinet. I worked in a well known Recorder making shop for several years and we had paid professional players play test and give detailed notes throughout the final tuning and voicing process - typically these players would play each instrument 2-3 times, with adjustments made between each playing session.

Funny thing though: While some aspects would generally be agreed upon, two different pro players often wouldn't agree on all the tuning issues on a given instrument, becuase each player blows a bit differently from the next, so one player says " the High G note is flat" while the other says "the high G note is sharp". At which point the head of the shop says "good, I've got that note just right!" And doesn't mess with it any more - much to the consternation of one of those two testers, who is certain he or she is the one playing in tune

In the end, while there are a number of whistles out there with excellent intonation (plus more than a few that are questionable, at best) the bottom line is that it boils down to how you blow, and what you like.

Several well intonated instruments have been mentioned, so I'll ad another: Whistles by Chris Abell. If you come from a clarinet and classical background, you might very well like the sound and intonation of Abell whistles, if you don't mind paying the price.

Loren

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:27 pm

Loren wrote: you might very well like the sound and intonation of Abell whistles, if you don't mind paying the price.

Loren

I'll second that...my Abell is my most-missed instrument, followed by the third Copeland I owed. I liked the other two alright, but the third one was just crazy good.

A-Musing · Post by **A-Musing** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:16 pm

Pleasing intonation in a whistle is a great thing! And, as others have said, in the last analysis is in the ear of the beholder. In my current batch of whistles... all lows...are 3 Burkes, 2 Copelands, 2 Overtons, and a new one, of four or five weeks, a Reviol low Eb. Intonation that feels right to me is a characteristic of all of these whistles.
Probably, like most, I go through phases of like and dislike with my whistles. But over time and with much play, the "good" ones stay, and the "bothersome" ones move on. These judgements (outside of the REALLY out of tune whistles) are highly personal.
This new Reviol, by the way, has some of the best intonation of any whistle I've ever played. 2 notes into the third octave. Nice!
Learning the wonderful nuances of playing these "simple" instruments is a great pleasure.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:23 pm

Yup, I'm glad I never sold my Abell set over the years, although I had to let nearly everything else go at one point.

Ditto what you said on the Copelands: I've had several that were very nice, and one (now rather famous around here) that was unusually great.

Hey, who's got the Phosphor Bronze Copeland now anyway? I've always wondered what that one sounds like.

Loren