Individual Style

[fearfaoin]

And I'm in the beginning planning stages of making a DVD, about half performance (with different groups) and half instructional.

I, for one, cannot wait.

[crookedtune]

There is, interestingly, a regional style here in the USA, although
it's a pretty wide region. Namely, country, bluegrass, old timey
music, Appalachian music, fiddle music, banjo music. For some
reason flutes and whistles weren't used much
but they work fine, IMO. A lot of this stuff is Irish
that got transformed into something American--it's
probably less complex and interesting than ITM,
especially as we don't have a great tradition of
flutes and whistle playing in it. Still it's worth developing,
I think. I play with these people when I can.

tunes like Cold, Frosty Morning.

Jim, interesting you should hit on that. I'm primarily an old-time fiddle/banjo/mandolin player, and have been messing around with whistle, flute and ITM on the side. I've found it very interesting that in the U.S., fife and flute really died out in folk music, except for a few small pockets, (e.g. black fifes in the south, some contradance flute-playing, and of course, the rebirth of fife as a military instrument).

Anyway, the bulk of my flute and whistle playing is American fiddle tunes that I'm familiar with. (Soldier's Joy, Girl I Left Behind Me, Colored Aristocracy, Sugar Hill, Fly Around......). And you're right, the flute, fife and whistle work exceedingly well in that genre. But you won't find much acceptance in a jam, which is why I keep my stringed doodads handy.

[cocusflute]

James said,

I don't buy this. If it were true, every flutist from one area in Ireland would sound like every other flutist from the same area, and that's obviously not the case.

But it is the case. Sligo fiddlers sound like Sligo fiddlers and Donegal fiddlers sound like Donegal fiddlers. Flute-players from within a certain tradition do sound like other flute-players from within that same tradition. Otherwise there would be no tradition. And I don't think you're saying that.
They won't be each be indentical and some will be more accomplished than others. But northern (e.g., Belfast) flute-players play harder, with more emphasis on rhythm. Clare players play more legato, with more ornamentation. I am suprised you'd disagree. It seems obvious that people who play together a lot would tend to share melody, phrasing and ornamentation.
Yes, there is an American tradition of music. It's wonderful, but it's not Irish. In the south the fiddling tradition developed mostly from the Scots rather than the Irish. In the Northeast it comes from Canada and seems more Irish- but it has its own stylistic devices which move it away from Irish Traditional.
True, in neither the south or the north is there a tradition of (timber) flutes or whistles, except for the fife, which has a tradition of its own. I never thought of the timber flute or the whistle as being ideally suited to American old-time... though it might be fun to try to play along with Bruce Molsky. People like Pete Grant or Henry Saposnik do play Irish tunes on the dobro or the five-string banjo. And I'm sure there are some people pulling a plow with a Rav4.
Old-timers in Doolin used to say that long ago you could tell the difference between players from one side of town, from players from the other side of town. Regional differences started fading with the introduction of modern recording and Matt Molloy wanna-bes. But although the differences have faded they have not altogether vanished.

[peeplj]

It's the part about lack of choice, and the implied lack of individuality, that bugs me.

I agree that there is certainly a regional tradition, and that players who come up in a particular region carry that region's stamp on their playing...but they are still individuals, and they still put their own stamp on their music as well, and the longer they play and the more experienced they are, the more this is true.

Again, just my $.02. Not seeking to argue; only to clarify what I meant.

--James

[jim stone]

There is, interestingly, a regional style here in the USA, although
it's a pretty wide region. Namely, country, bluegrass, old timey
music, Appalachian music, fiddle music, banjo music. For some
reason flutes and whistles weren't used much
but they work fine, IMO. A lot of this stuff is Irish
that got transformed into something American--it's
probably less complex and interesting than ITM,
especially as we don't have a great tradition of
flutes and whistle playing in it. Still it's worth developing,
I think. I play with these people when I can.

tunes like Cold, Frosty Morning.

Jim, interesting you should hit on that. I'm primarily an old-time fiddle/banjo/mandolin player, and have been messing around with whistle, flute and ITM on the side. I've found it very interesting that in the U.S., fife and flute really died out in folk music, except for a few small pockets, (e.g. black fifes in the south, some contradance flute-playing, and of course, the rebirth of fife as a military instrument).

Anyway, the bulk of my flute and whistle playing is American fiddle tunes that I'm familiar with. (Soldier's Joy, Girl I Left Behind Me, Colored Aristocracy, Sugar Hill, Fly Around......). And you're right, the flute, fife and whistle work exceedingly well in that genre. But you won't find much acceptance in a jam, which is why I keep my stringed doodads handy.

Well, whistle is being used in country these days, anyhow.
The Dixie Chicks use a whistler occasionally.

I do Soldier's Joy, girl I left behind me...but not the other
tunes you mentioned--Thanks! Also Going Down To Cairo.
Blackberry Blossom, Cherokee Shuffle. 8th of January.
Arkansas Traveller.

Also hymns like Down by the river to pray.

Other suggestions? Americana experts, help!

[StephenR]

I suspect that with the onset of mass communication, regional styles are becoming less defined over time. I don't think that's necessarily hurting the music, but it can IMO be useful to hear the older players who learned to play in a more regional style. US styles probably aren't so defined, but I wouldn't entirely dismiss the notion. I used to live in New England where its common to put a lot of swing into the rhythm of tunes. That may be fueled by a strong mix of contradance and French Canadian influence.

As far as developing an individual style, I think that comes primarily from what attracts you in others' playing that you find useful. Choices that you tend to use for phrasing, emphasis, rhythm, technique, etc. will make up your style especially on tunes that you arrange yourself as opposed to copy from a CD. I think it was John Hartford that once said something about music being all about limitations. Style (especially regional) is defined by a limits of that music. Django Rhinhardt, limited in his music by a deformed right hand, developed an individual style that would probably not have happened if he had use of all his fingers.

Stephen

[m31]

My style is largely a function of limitations in technique, bad habits and selective listening. I had wondered on occasion if Ornette Coleman's "free jazz" sax playing was a result of his inability to mimic Charlie Parker.

[Denny]

My style is largely a function of limitations in technique, bad habits and selective listening. I had wondered on occasion if Ornette Coleman's "free jazz" sax playing was a result of his inability to mimic Charlie Parker.

I'd think that it was more of an inability to not be Ornette Coleman.

[mutepointe]

amazingly:
1. you already have your own style.
2. your style should/will evolve.
3. there's a difference between "a style" and "style." teenagers have a style but you don't see me wanting to wear my pants down to there. people with dignity have style.
4. hopefully, you have a style that you love and that others may love too (but that doesn't matter as much.)

i agree with the folks who talked about bluegrass/folk and fingerpicking. i taught myself how to pick acoustic guitar (6 & 12 string) and developed a style that folks seem to enjoy. i don't fingerpick anything like the indigo girls or joni mitchell. i have no clue what joni mitchell is doing.

[greenspiderweb]

Or is this a totally crazy question for a Sunday morning?

M

Yes.

[chas]

amazingly:
3. there's a difference between "a style" and "style." teenagers have a style but you don't see me wanting to wear my pants down to there. people with dignity have style.

But we're talking individual style here. I had a niece here for a week this summer. She was so damned group-identifying in her individuality.

i have no clue what joni mitchell is doing.

Me neither, but it sure works doesn't it? I had the idiotic idea of playing some of her accompaniment on the lap dulcimer once (her guitar, not her dulcimer). I'll never try that again.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

i have no clue what joni mitchell is doing.

Me neither, but it sure works doesn't it? I had the idiotic idea of playing some of her accompaniment on the lap dulcimer once (her guitar, not her dulcimer). I'll never try that again.

I remember my girlfriend and I sitting in our apartment in Seattle years ago, playing (trying to play, anyway) our guitars and singing along with Joni's LP's.

No, we did not sound like her a bit

M

[Chiffed]

Me neither, but it sure works doesn't it? I had the idiotic idea of playing some of her accompaniment on the lap dulcimer once (her guitar, not her dulcimer). I'll never try that again.

I remember my girlfriend and I sitting in our apartment in Seattle years ago, playing (trying to play, anyway) our guitars and singing along with Joni's LP's.

No, we did not sound like her a bit

M

Just for kicks, we threw Both Sides Now into a set, and darned if it didn't work great. DADGAD guitar, the most professional vocalist I've ever worked with, and flute on the breaks. Certainly not Joni style.

As for Ornette Coleman, his is more of an inability to pick a style. He seems to be trying to play several parallel styles. Style develops as we interpret the rules, conventions, and assumptions of our genre. Ornette tried to simply chuck the rules, but he ended up playing music that was more conventional than he hoped. Idioms are as tough to kick as some hard drugs!
Oh... Did I mention I looove Free Jazz?

[Denny]

Oh... Did I mention I looove Free Jazz?

we are soooo surprised!

[crookedtune]

I do Soldier's Joy, girl I left behind me...but not the other
tunes you mentioned--Thanks! Also Going Down To Cairo.
Blackberry Blossom, Cherokee Shuffle. 8th of January.
Arkansas Traveller.

Also hymns like Down by the river to pray.

Other suggestions? Americana experts, help!

Jim, the list is really pretty much all-inclusive of American fiddle tunes. But when I say they work great on flute and whistle, I wasn't implying that it's "in the tradition" or that it makes sense to bring your flute to stringband sessions. All I was saying is that it's OK to think outside the box a little and see what happens. Pick your favorite musical innovator, and think about it.

Anyway some of the other tunes I play include: Bonaparte's Retreat, Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine, Bonaparte Crossing the Alps, Sugar in the Gourd, Shove That Pig's Foot a Little Further into the Fire, Evening Star Waltz, Seneca Squaredance (Waiting for the Federals), Grasshopper Sitting on a Sweet Potato Vine, Yellow Rose of Texas, Rockingham Cindy, Needlecase, Sandy Boys, Over the Waterfall, Root Hog or Die, Snouts and Ears of America, Sarah Armstrong's Tune, Cotton-Eyed Joe, Go to the Devil and Shake Yourself, Rattlesnake, Shady Grove, Cluck Old Hen, Old Joe Clark, Bill Cheatham, Ways of the World, Temperance Reel, Old Piss, Bangum, John Brown's Dream, Ora Lee, Jefferson & Liberty, Rights of Man, Granny Will Your Dog Bite........ just lots and lots.

They ALL sound great on flute and whistle, and they're a blast to play. Playing along with Bruce Molsky? I hadn't thought of that, but why not? He rocks.