secret to playing fast??

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:22 pm

Yes, isn't that a nice feeling?

If I had been born in Ireland of parents who were professional
musicians, played the whistle since I was 3 (you know the
story) I suppose
all this would be silly.

But the idea of actually addressing the instrument almost
as if it was a classical instrument, doing
scales and arpeggios and broken chords, which is
the last thing I wanted, has now become more
interesting to me. Never fear that this will make one
mechanical--that would take a lot more of this practice
than I will ever do!

And of course one plays the tunes....

Finally I think, I'm putting as much effort into this
as I've ever put into anything. Well, then, I might
as well do what I can to master the instrument.

jdevereux · Post by **jdevereux** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:25 pm

The Secret to Playing Fast: Don't!

IDAwHOa · Post by **IDAwHOa** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:33 pm

This discussion is great as long as by "fast" you mean up to proper speed and tempo. Nothing kills a tune or song faster (pun intended) than trying to go faster than it should be, especially dance tunes. It makes me shudder to think how fast the wee girls would have to move to keep up with most playing.

sponge · Post by **sponge** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:47 pm

Some great advice guys, I shall put it to practice tommorow, i'll start with a 20 minute session in the morning, and then again after work.

what would say was you favourite fast tune, traditional irish or other music type, played on the whistle???????

sponge

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:14 pm

Maybe someone made these points already. (I didn't read all posts).
Some reels, especially those that aren't very "melodious", sound like nothing at all if played too slow. I find that I need to pick tunes that are within my ability to get up to speed in a reasonable time, about a month or two. If I try to learn a reel where I can't get a melody going due to lack of speed, I get nowhere. Those will have to wait until my skills improve. Although I have to say that I like more "tuneful" tunes. Those "tuneless" reels are not really my cup of tea. (No pun intended.) Maybe some would say that it's just "sour grapes" on my part, but they become boring and all sound alike.

WhistlingArmadillo · Post by **WhistlingArmadillo** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:14 pm

On a slightly different tack, and something I learned from my recorder playing (yes, I admit it): aside from all the great advice already given, it's also important to not hold the fingers down more tightly than necessary. As time goes on, you learn to keep the holes covered with less pressure, which allows much faster responce from the fingers.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:20 pm

Whitmores75087 wrote:Maybe someone made these points already. (I didn't read all posts).
Some reels, especially those that aren't very "melodious", sound like nothing at all if played too slow. I find that I need to pick tunes that are within my ability to get up to speed in a reasonable time, about a month or two. If I try to learn a reel where I can't get a melody going due to lack of speed, I get nowhere. Those will have to wait until my skills improve. Although I have to say that I like more "tuneful" tunes. Those "tuneless" reels are not really my cup of tea. (No pun intended.) Maybe some would say that it's just "sour grapes" on my part, but they become boring and all sound alike.

I couldn't disagree more: If you can make a reel sound and feel good when played slowly, then you'll be able to play it up tempo without sounding like you're just churning the tune out. Good lift and rhythmic nuance tend to become more difficult to maintain at higher tempos, so really working those things at slow tempo can make all the difference. So often, particularly with whistle playing, you hear folks churning out the notes, at speed, with no feel. The "Tuneless" or Tunefullness" is more in the player, than the tune.

Loren

PhilO · Post by **PhilO** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:40 pm

I sort of get what Whitmores is (are?) talking about. I think the reel Flagstone of Memories is a beautiful recognizable tune. I once heard someone playing it "fast" and didn't even recognize the tune - a thing of beauty was turned into a thing of virtuosity. Now, when those two qualities come together you get the really fine players and what we are all (I think) striving for.

Philo

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:52 pm

PhilO wrote:I sort of get what Whitmores is (are?) talking about. I think the reel Flagstone of Memories is a beautiful recognizable tune. I once heard someone playing it "fast" and didn't even recognize the tune - a thing of beauty was turned into a thing of virtuosity.
Philo

Hmm, I thought whitmores was saying that some reels don't good when played slow, as opposed to fast, as you're suggesting Phil.

Well, at any rate, if you slow anything down past a certain tempo, it's not going to sound like much anyway, I mean if we're talking radically slow. But I don't think that's what whitmores meant either.

Loren

falkbeer · Post by **falkbeer** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:11 pm

Sometimes it´s not only the fingers that must move fast. I´ve got a problem right now. I´m practising a piece called Tambourine by Gossec. In the end of the piece one have to play 16th notes really fast in staccatto. I know of the technique called double tongue (and tripple tongue), but I have not used this technique very much during the years som my double toung isn´t that great at the moment, so I´ll have to use the regular tongue and push it to the limit.
But you can really say "tu - tu -tu..." fast to a certain limit.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:18 pm

falkbeer wrote: But you can really say "tu - tu -tu..." fast to a certain limit.

Try alternating the Tu (with the tip of you tongue), with Ka (using the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth, at the back) - this way you can nearly double your speed. There are several variations of this.

Loren

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:32 pm

Loren wrote:
falkbeer wrote: But you can really say "tu - tu -tu..." fast to a certain limit.
Try alternating the Tu (with the tip of you tongue), with Ka (using the back of your tongue against the roof of your mouth, at the back) - this way you can nearly double your speed. There are several variations of this.

Loren

I have heard saying the words ticket and kitchen are similar to the tongue movement needed. Also another pattern that is softer to define notes is a slite roll of the R similar to the spanish rolling (not a full roll, more of a snap) of the R in el dorado. Du, Ru, Du, Ru...

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:46 pm

ta ki ta ta ki ta ta ki ta...

King Friday · Post by **King Friday** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:40 pm

Not to shift this thread, but how did Micho Russell play the way he did? By that I mean playing really fast, but having it sound really relaxed and almost slow at times.

Coffee · Post by **Coffee** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:58 pm

There's an old bit of advice passed on to me when I was starting on the hielan' pipes, and I wish I knew who my teacher heard it from, but I'm sure she was paraphrasing someone: "If you try to play a tune to fast, too soon, you'll lose it for good." or words to that effect.
Lots of good advice on this thread.