Sympathizing with John McHaffie - a horror story -

[billw]

Wow. Never again will I tell anyone one single peep about the progress of their whistles. I have just received two of the most venomous emails in my life from one purchaser who found it impossible to comprehend that when I cannot work on whistles, they don't get finished! What a concept. Fortunately, most of my customers are sane and understanding, so I haven't any others to refund, but this amazing individual not only beat the crap out of me for telling him (about 1 day before I moved) optimistically that I would complete his whistles early (all unknowing that I wouldn't be able to because of the lack of shop space), but demanded that I forthwith return his money, which I would gladly do had I not used it for purchase of supplies and moving, or he would entertain litigation against me. He called me a thief and a swindler, and was exceptionally abusive in those emails, finally deciding that it would be more trouble than it was worth to litigate to force me to return his "stolen money", which will be coming back to him, as I said in an earlier post, toward the end of the month, when I have replenished my coffers sufficiently to handle it. I've been on short rations here, having had to pay most of my funds out in penalties to cancel my lease early so I can get back to my shop. I didn't mention that to him, fearing it would kindle another episode of apoplectic rage in his bosom. I don't want to be responsible for him having a stroke or something.

Pointing out that my delivery estimate for one whistle is like 60 to 90 days (which I know I've way exceeded in a couple of cases, fortunately to buyers still possessed of a spark of reason and understanding) and that we had not reached the end of that period which ends October 9th, only triggered more anger because I had foolishly let him know that his instruments were near to completion, which they still are.

I sent out the same email about delays to every one of my customers to whom I owe instruments, and save this one individual whom, in my considered opinion, could benefit from anger management counselling, every one decided to hold the line until I can get the shop up again. Thank you all, very, very much indeed!

So I now prep for the move back to the shop, all unfinished whistles packed with their fipples installed and ready for tuning and tweaks. I will let everyone know when I'm back in full force there.
Slainte!
Bill Whedon

[jonharl]

When your in business for yourself you meet all kinds of personalities. Most problems come about because of a lack of understanding. Sounds like that's the case with this customer. Can't please some people no matter what. Just move on.

[anniemcu]

I've found that most folks are quite understanding of the fact that "life" tends to happen at the most inconvenient moments. There are always exceptions though. Glad it was just one.

Good luck on the move, BTW!

And if anybody sees that guy Murphy (the one with the 'at the most inconvenient moment' law), kick 'im in the shins a time or two for me, too!!

[Flogging Jason]

People who threaten litigation over such petty things are just blowing smoke and are probably spoiled brats anyways who don't really appreciate the things they seek. I've never been threatened with litigation but, having been a restuarant worker for a decade I can tell you that I know the type.

On a note of curiousity...what kind of whistles was he ordering?(other than pretty metal ones...lol) I'm not familiar with your work but, I have a bad habit of buying whistles.

[anniemcu]

People who threaten litigation over such petty things are just blowing smoke and are probably spoiled brats anyways who don't really appreciate the things they seek. I've never been threatened with litigation but, having been a restuarant worker for a decade I can tell you that I know the type.

On a note of curiousity...what kind of whistles was he ordering?(other than pretty metal ones...lol) I'm not familiar with your work but, I have a bad habit of buying whistles.

Sometimes they are just people who are too stressed with life and/or don't have the skills (verbal or social) to deal with frustration. They are definitely acting the jerk, but that doesn't make them inherently evil... just in need of some enlightenment...

lightning counts as enlightenment, doesn't it??

Uh... I meant ... 'patience is a virtue'... yes... that's it...

[King Friday]

That stinks, somebody's got their britches in a bunch

[Coffee]

Sorry the guy was being such a bastage. The world is, unfortunately, full of them. Most of them aren't whistle players thank God.

So...what are you gonna do with the almost finished whistle? What key is it in?

[billw]

Well, he's left me alone for a day now, having discovered that I won't rise to the bait and get abusive back, I guess. (sigh... sometimes I want to return in kind, but every time I have, I've felt like a real s**t afterward and usually apologized)

Answering direct questions - soprano Eb and D, and alto Bb and A. The hard bit (getting a properly tooting tube) is done on all couple dozen (the bulk of which are sop D). Now I'm just waiting on being able to get the tuning finished, which requires grinding (see my piccie here) and drilling the holes on the milling machine, which is a non-issue. Would've been here, too, since that's not excessively loud - but the grinder and chopsaw are real, real noisy.

I remember seeing an old "Mission Impossible" episode in which Peter Graves used a "silenced" grinder looking much like I what use, to cut off a lock. If I could buy one like that,(haha, utterly nonexistent, of course!), it'd have been no problem!

Hey, the world keeps on turning, and I'm glad that most people on C&F are reasonable, nice people who have been very supportive of me a good 99% of the time. Thank you.
Slainte!
Bill Whedon

[Dave Parkhurst]

That's the main reason why I refuse(d) to give a solid delivery date. I've told people that if they absolutely must have it by a certain date, to go to a store and buy one. I make instruments and sometimes I make a bit of musical art...I will not tolerate people who try to force my hand... I've been willing to wait over a year for an instrument and I expect that kind of courtesy from others. Sounds like you met someone who would not blend well with the C&F community.

grrrr...... growf growf

Dave

[slydini]

Unfortunatley, as what happens on all forums, only one side of the story is heard, and acted upon.

I happen to be the person Bill is talking about. For what ever it's worth I would like to give my side of the situation.

When I purchased the whistles, I had no time frame in mind for when I would receive them. I know full well that whistle making is an art, and I have the outmost respect for that art. I would never want to force anyone in their artistic endevors.

Some time had passed and I received an e-mail saying that the whistles would be shipping in the next few days. Nothing ever came of it. Some more time passed, another e-mail stating that the whistles would be shipping in the next few days. Again, the whistles never arrived. Some more time passed and I receive an e-mail statting that the whistles would not be shipping out untill a latter date due to a move.

I know nothing about Bill, I only know that the information in each e-mail did not pan out.

I sent an e-mail back stating that in fact I no longer wanted the whistles. I also stated that I felt an immediate refund is due as I had paid for the whistles in full.

At this point I must publicly apoligize to Bill for him feeling that I was going to sue him. That was never my intention. I was going to go through Paypals system to get my money refunded.

I was very dubious as to what was happening. Again, I have no notion of who Bill is and I have had some bad experiences in the past few weeks with some online purchases.

I never initiated any e-maile to Bill, I only responded to e-mails I recieved from Bill.

I just wish people would wait to hear both sides of a story before saying things about that person.

In closing, I would like to say that I whish no Ill on Bill. In fact, I hope he does well in all his endevors and his business thrives.

Paul

[Loren]

What, no one willing to sympathize with the customer? Interesting.

Paul, FWIW, I do feel it was bad form for folks here to side with Bill, without ever having heard your side of the story.

It's also my opinion that it was even worse form for Bill to post a gripe about a customer on a public forum - that is, IMO, wholly unprofessional and inapropriate, and it surprises me that others don't see it that way, and in fact encouraged him.


Loren

[Denny]

What, no one willing to sympathize with the customer? Interesting.

Paul, FWIW, I do feel it was bad form for folks here to side with Bill, without ever having heard your side of the story.

It's also my opinion that it was even worse form for Bill to post a gripe about a customer on a public forum - that is, IMO, wholly unprofessional and inapropriate, and it surprises me that others don't see it that way, and in fact encouraged him.


Loren

naw...just tryin' to stay out of it.

At least Bill emailed him,
it's not like he wouldn't even respond!

[anniemcu]

It is always best to hear both sides. It is rare that we actually *get* to hear both sides, but that doesn't mean we forget they exist.

Buyers and sellers both get frustrated, and the reasons vary. I know that I've been in predicaments as both buyer or seller that have been, or at least appeared worthy of complaint by the other party.

I know better than to assume that I know the whole story, especially when I'm only hearing one side. My joking about the situation was meant to show both sides, reflecting a situation I went through with a problematic person (too stressed/lack of verbal skills), what it has sometimes taken to get me enlightened ('lightning'), and my genuine wish (patience).

At least for myself, I was empathyzing with Bill because I've seen similar things to what he described, I know him, know some of what he's been going through with the move(s), and I didn't have the other side available. As is often the case, after hearing the other side, I can empathyze with slydini/Paul, as well, as I've been on that end of things too. Since he'd been recently ripped with online purchase, the back and forth of Bill's situation must have seemed suspicious in that light.

My wish is for it to work out to both party's satisfaction. There is probably no way that both can be happy now, but at least satisfied that they didn't get 'had'. I would say that both Bill and Paul have had enough stress at this point.

My suggestion, a gentlemen's handshake and return of the price paid.

Edited to add:

This is a prime example of why it is a good idea to never say something in public that you would not say to the face of the person involved. That said, it is still necessary sometimes to vent frustration with a situation to someone you know will understand... but probably not on a public forum.

[fearfaoin]

It's also my opinion that it was even worse form for Bill to post a gripe about a customer on a public forum - that is, IMO, wholly unprofessional and inapropriate, and it surprises me that others don't see it that way, and in fact encouraged him.

I wouldn't want to comment on that without knowing both sides.

It's probably not a good idea to publicly talk about private dealings,
but since I didn't see the emails in question, I restrained to comment
either way. I feel that Paul, when he posted, showed quite a bit of
restraint, which now could make Bill look bad for complaining, which
leads me back to public griping being a bad idea, if only because it
could easily end up masticating upon your posterior.

[PhilO]

What, no one willing to sympathize with the customer? Interesting.

Paul, FWIW, I do feel it was bad form for folks here to side with Bill, without ever having heard your side of the story.

It's also my opinion that it was even worse form for Bill to post a gripe about a customer on a public forum - that is, IMO, wholly unprofessional and inapropriate, and it surprises me that others don't see it that way, and in fact encouraged him.


Loren

Strangely Loren, I actually agree with you in this particular matter, especially regarding the uninformed atta boy slaps on the back in support of the maker. I got a bit of an uncomfortable feeling both from the public airing by Bill and from the expressions of support. I do firmly believe however, that Bill likely expressed his frustration thinking that he was not specifically identifying the individual and that the discussion was therefore more of a general one and those who empathized with him were doing just that. I understand that, but this is still a pretty small community.

This scenario also brings to mind the oft debated reverse scenario, i.e., do we as consumers have the right, or even the obligation, to publicly report what we consider to be outrageous or incompetent behavior by a maker or distributor? My own feeling is that one should not, under ordinary circumstances (i.e., lives are not going to be endangered by our silence), even think about a public rendering until a long detailed and exhaustive effort to address it with the maker/retailer is definitively completed. Fortunately, problems with the makers and distributors I've dealt with have been very few and far between (actually just one in over ten years, and under unusual circumstances) and that was dealt with by the maker satisfactorily without ever resorting to anything other than private follow-up, venting, mutual empathy and discussion.

Sometimes it's difficult to decide when to participate in these threads for fear of making matters worse; I'm wondering if I'm doing that right now, for example. But, at some point I guess it is better to air these matters out, as long as we don't attack, humiliate, or alienate specific parties even by implication.

Philo