Flute Test Answers

[johnkerr]

Loren, I confess I'd not heard of dogwood before. Is it a common 'tone-wood' or something that's just come into use for instruments? Have you ever worked with it?

Dogwood is the state flower of Virginia, the state where I grew up and still live. Maybe dogwood is the state tree of Virginia as well. I don't know, but regardless there are apparently a lot of them around here. I wonder about it as a flute wood, though. Why? Because when I was a kid in the Boy Scouts, whenever we would head out into the woods to gather sticks to use to roast our marshmallows or hotdogs with over the campfire, the adult leaders would tell us to be sure not to bring back any dogwood sticks. (Like I would have known a dogwood stick if I saw one.) I always assumed that was because dogwood was poisonous. But maybe it was just out of respect for the state flower. I suppose I could have asked why, but then again I could have asked them how the hell I was supposed to tell if a stick was dogwood, and I didn't. What can I say? I was a kid.

But anyway, remembering that now, I wonder if there might be allergy or other issues with dogwood as a flute wood, as there are with cocus. Anyone know?

[chas]

But anyway, remembering that now, I wonder if there might be allergy or other issues with dogwood as a flute wood, as there are with cocus. Anyone know?

I don't know, but Loren's playing one, and he will be our bellwether if it is a problem.

[Loren]

But anyway, remembering that now, I wonder if there might be allergy or other issues with dogwood as a flute wood, as there are with cocus. Anyone know?

I don't know, but Loren's playing one, and he will be our bellwether if it is a problem.

Yup, I've been playing this one for......how long has it been now Nano? The better portion of a year anyway, I think. No problems at all.

One of the reasons I really wanted this flute when it became available was because I had gotten tired of dealing with the wood "allergy" problems I've been experiencing since the time I became sensitized to certain woods through my prolonged contact with a Cocus flute several years ago. I now react to Cocus, blackwood, and cocobolo, as well as some other rosewoods and possibly now even to red lancewood.

Boxwood, Maple, and Dogwood however cause me no problems at all. Dogwood seems to be quite benign from the player's perspective.



Loren

[scooter587]

LOL, the flute sound I liked best came from one that I already have--a Ward delrin. It's my "rough travel" flute for river trips and mountain backpacks. I still favor my blackwood Copley, but the two are close enough, I'll never speak ill of delrin....

[bepoq]

Well I have to say, I never would have picked that first one as one of Patrick's, particularly not a keyless. I thought I heard a mistake at around 4 seconds, but because the other changes were so good (nice job on the editing) I put it down as a mistake and not a flute change. Interesting to hear that so many others where Gallaghers. I just played a dogwood he made and really liked it (is that the only one?). So I suppose I kind of picked up the pratten rudally last change, thinking it sounded like a Grinter, but suggested a change where there wasn't one. Hell, knew I'd be rubbish at this. I think it would be really interesting and perhaps an experiment with a slightly better chance of a sensible result if you had one maker's flutes in different woods and models played in the same way by the same player. Say:

Olwell rudall boxwood
" nicholsen cocus
" Pratten unlined boxwood.
etc. etc.

easier said than done to get one of each of Patrick's models together to play of course, but would be great to try it.

By the way, Dogwood?!? I've only ever come across one dogwood flute for five minutes and I think it is the one played here. How on earth would anyone be able to guess at there being a dogwood flute?

[johnkerr]

I now react to Cocus, blackwood, and cocobolo, as well as some other rosewoods and possibly now even to red lancewood.

Boxwood, Maple, and Dogwood however cause me no problems at all. Dogwood seems to be quite benign from the player's perspective.

Well, I've never reacted to any wood (so far...knock on wood), and I've played blackwood, cocus, red lancewood and boxwood flutes, all for periods extending longer than a few minutes. So, given that, perhaps dogwood might be the one wood I DO react to. In other words, I (and other never-reacted players like me) could be the exact opposite of you, Loren.

Have you ever considered that perhaps it's not you being allergic to the woods, but rather the woods being allergic to YOU, and retaliating? What is that old saying? Some days you eat the smiley, some days the smiley eats you!

[Loren]

Well, I've never reacted to any wood (so far...knock on wood), and I've played blackwood, cocus, red lancewood and boxwood flutes, all for periods extending longer than a few minutes. So, given that, perhaps dogwood might be the one wood I DO react to. In other words, I (and other never-reacted players like me) could be the exact opposite of you, Loren.

Riiiiight. Remind me never to let you try my Dogwood flute, the potential liability is staggering.

Have you ever considered that perhaps it's not you being allergic to the woods, but rather the woods being allergic to YOU, and retaliating? What is that old saying?

Indeed, the wood, my housemate, his dog, the neighbors, random folks passing by on the street as I practice, my flute teacher..... All have plenty of reason to retaliate! Honestly, it's amazing someone hasn't offed me yet - every time I record myself to check my progress (or lack there of), I want to commit Seppuku.

Plenty of women have reacted to me as if allergic, so I certainly wouldn't discount the idea that I have a similar effect on wood.


Loren

[Dave Parkhurst]

Wow.... this was REALLY humbling...I would have failed this test miserably! Listening to the track with the scorecard available, I must admit that I really like the Ward and Gallagher flute sections....

Dave

[Loren]

No Dave, what you really liked was the way the player played those flutes during those sections, there is a difference......


Loren

[cocusflute]

I think a better test would have been to have an accomplished player play the whole first part of a tune-- on different flutes. And then compare that. This test required too much close attention to detect the differences. The differences were not readily apparent because each flute was played for such a short time.
I don't know what conclusions we can make based on the test and the results. I didn't learn anything.* Did anybody?

*I did learn that John doesn't know what dogwood looks like.

[GaryKelly]

This test required too much close attention to detect the differences. The differences were not readily apparent because each flute was played for such a short time.

The rationale was that if there were significant changes in tone between flutes of different materials and styles (as is so often claimed), then those differences should be readily apparent side by side.

Another test might be long tones spliced together, but it would need a studio environment to ensure changes in background noises didn't give the game away. There'd be no tempo changes to worry about and volume changes could be normalised out.

I learned plenty.

[johnkerr]

*I did learn that John doesn't know what dogwood looks like.

Well, I DO know what dogwood flowers look like - but only because my first job back in high school was working for the local park authority, cleaning the bathrooms and picking up trash. (And taking naps on stray picnic tables when the rangers weren't around. Nowadays, I can goof off at work by reading C&F, but back then there was no C&F - probably because Al Gore hadn't invented the Internet yet.) Anyway, the park authority's symbol was the dogwood flower, and they had it painted on all their trucks (only one of which I wrecked). So I learned what a dogwood flower looks like. But that's no good for identifying dogwood wood, because the damn trees only bloom a few weeks out of the year.

[johnkerr]

Hey, you can say 'damn' on Chiff & Fipple! Still can't say 'cr*p' and 'sh*te', though...

[Nanohedron]

But anyway, remembering that now, I wonder if there might be allergy or other issues with dogwood as a flute wood, as there are with cocus. Anyone know?

I don't know, but Loren's playing one, and he will be our bellwether if it is a problem.

Yup, I've been playing this one for......how long has it been now Nano? The better portion of a year anyway, I think. No problems at all.

One of the reasons I really wanted this flute when it became available was because I had gotten tired of dealing with the wood "allergy" problems I've been experiencing since the time I became sensitized to certain woods through my prolonged contact with a Cocus flute several years ago. I now react to Cocus, blackwood, and cocobolo, as well as some other rosewoods and possibly now even to red lancewood.

Boxwood, Maple, and Dogwood however cause me no problems at all. Dogwood seems to be quite benign from the player's perspective.



Loren

I commissioned that flute from Pat Olwell because of my own blackwood allergy. It was the only one he'd ever made at the time. I was inspired to try the dogwood thanks to conversations I'd had with him and his musings about a chunk of the stuff lying idle in his back yard. Dunno if he has plans for more; it's good stuff, though, IMHO. Hard as nails.

[Whistlin'Dixie]

Was that differences in tone or differences in volume/background noise you spotted, M? (Just trying to understand what you meant by 'changes'. )

Hey Gary, I turned the computer up, played it through about 4 times before work this morning, and quickly noted differences in background noise/volume, as you suggested.
To me, the flutes all sounded lovely ~ and about the same.
Nice tune, too.
Actually, I was going to say they were all blackwood. My personal favorite!

I liked your experiment, and would like to hear the clips all full length.
But good editing job, though.

I still like reading and writing about flutes, with all the assorted adjectives. It helps take me away from my humdrum (not!) life...

M