Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

[TelegramSam]

I've got an 8 year old cat who lives outdoors, and she's staying out there, mainly because she'd go crazy if we tried to bring her inside (which is what happened when we tried to bring her inside when we first got her).

[Jack]

Cran, you absolutely have a point here, but I think it may be a bit depressing to some of the other chiffers to make an unpleasant point out of what was probably just a sarcastic joke.

Thank you. I wasn't aware that that part was a sarcastic joke. Sorry.

Then you are telling us if the cat wants to go outside we should force our will on them to be a house pet?

Yes I am. The cat may want to go outside, but the cat does not know what is best for it.

Your child may want to jump into a frozen pool in January or to run across the highway while cars are coming. Are you going to let your child do those things simply because he wants to? Of course not.

That would be abuse on your part, or at the very least neglect and endangerment. It is nothing less than that to alllow your cat to wander around outdoors simply because "it wants to."

[emmline]

Cranberry...most of us are just trying hard to live lives of utmost complication without going insane. If you want to look at every situation as a simplistic black/white ethical choice, you're going to be spending a heckuva lot of time rapping your judge gavel.

[Jack]

Cranberry...most of us are just trying hard to live lives of utmost complication without going insane. If you want to look at every situation as a simplistic black/white ethical choice, you're going to be spending a heckuva lot of time rapping your judge gavel.

You are taking it too personally. I'm sure you love your carpet very much, but a cat can't speak as to what is best for it. Luckily there are people like Joseph who know and who will speak for them.

Meow.

[gonzo914]

Hmmm . . . let's see . . . dead cat versus a couple of grand or more worth of carpet. . . . . Let me get that door for you, kitty.

This is the choice many people make, because people are, in general, more oriented toward their own standard of living at the expense of the animals they bring into their homes. Most people care more about carpet than they do a cat, unfortunately.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Both the cat and the carpet are still chattels, and the mere fact that one breathes does not, in my estimation, give it primacy over the other in and of itself. There are always other factors. If I had unlimited funds to replace the carpet weekly, then hell yes, kitty could stay. But I don't, so it's out the door with you, puss-puss.

And there are worse things than letting the cat go outside. I have more respect for the person who lets the the cat out than I do for the person who buys a PetCo fish and then puts it in an unfiltered tank that's way too small for it and then doesn't change the water and lets the poor fishy steep in a fetid brew of stale, chemical-saturated water, decomposing food and its own bodily wastes. The former is at least supplying a basically livable environment; the latter is tantmount to taking a cat, sealing it into a plastic bag, and stuffing it into a closet for week.

[Joseph E. Smith]

Hmmm . . . let's see . . . dead cat versus a couple of grand or more worth of carpet. . . . . Let me get that door for you, kitty.

This is the choice many people make, because people are, in general, more oriented toward their own standard of living at the expense of the animals they bring into their homes. Most people care more about carpet than they do a cat, unfortunately.

Then you are telling us if the cat wants to go outside we should force our will on them to be a house pet?

Its not a question of how much someone values material objects over a life
if that life is to be accepted as being a sentient being and not just as a material object itself.

If they want to go out, let them, but go out with them and supervise them. The responsibility one takes on when accepting a pet into their home has many conditions, the least of which should be the owner's "convenience" or "rationale". IMHO, all living things (yes, even plants and micororginisms) have sentience... varying in degress and levels. Whether we choose to recognize it or not, it is there. But, because it has yet to be scientiffically or truly proven, my opinion is based on blind faith. And that faith leads me back to being responsible to and for the lives one has taken into their keeping... to provide for and to protect and to allow happiness/fulfillment, to maintain and allow to exist.

But still I wonder, that if folk were truly concerned about the sentient well being of their pets, and if these pets were dependent on us for everything they need to live healthy and happy lives, then wouldn't the oness be upon them to see to it that is exactly what they should provide?. Allowing them to get smashed into a pink pudding by a garbage truck isn't exactly what I have in mind when I think of "quality of life", or "sentient/care/appreciation/respect".

[jsluder]

Cranberry...most of us are just trying hard to live lives of utmost complication without going insane. If you want to look at every situation as a simplistic black/white ethical choice, you're going to be spending a heckuva lot of time rapping your judge gavel.

You are taking it too personally.

That's what people do, Cran. We relate the words we hear to our personal experiences. What's black & white in one person's experience (or inexperience) may not be so simple to someone else.

Personally (See? There it is again...), I'm all for spaying/neutering cats and keeping them exclusively indoors. But I also believe there are exceptions (e.g., my brother's cat that I mentioned previously). It's a grey world.

[Joseph E. Smith]

The longer my posts, the less likely I am to be serious. This is the pub, and if you are dumb enough to come in here with your heart on your sleeve you are a prime target. It is open season on yo wide a$$, honky.

djm

Listen buddy, and listen good, I'll not say this again. When, tell me, when did I ever mention I wasn't dumb?!?!?

For rice lake, pallie, I may be a moron, but I am also dumb. Got it?!?!? Good!!!!

[Nanohedron]

I'm sure you love your carpet very much, but a cat can't speak as to what is best for it.

Is it just me, or is there a quantum shift of bewildering proportions in that sentence? And by the way, Cran, Em never said she had a carpet.

[Joseph E. Smith]

And there are worse things (...) I have more respect for the person who lets the the cat out than I do for the person who buys a PetCo fish and then puts it in an unfiltered tank that's way too small for it and then doesn't change the water and lets the poor fishy steep in a fetid brew of stale, chemical-saturated water, decomposing food and its own bodily wastes. The former is at least supplying a basically livable environment; the latter is tantmount to taking a cat, sealing it into a plastic bag, and stuffing it into a closet for week.

Ouch, baby, ouch.

[Denny]

I'm sure you love your carpet very much, but a cat can't speak as to what is best for it.

Is it just me, or is there a quantum shift of bewildering proportions in that sentence?

so I can quit tryin' to figure it out now???

Thank you,

[Denny]

...oh, yeah...

I have two (indoor) cats.
Do I need to get some carpet for them?

We used to have carpet,
but the cats seem to be enjoying the power slid now.

[Denny]

...and...

How long does it take for them to relearn traction?

[Denny]

one more thing

No fish...

well inside, there are some in the stream.

[Nanohedron]

I'm sure you love your carpet very much, but a cat can't speak as to what is best for it.

Is it just me, or is there a quantum shift of bewildering proportions in that sentence?

so I can quit tryin' to figure it out now???

Please do. I reached my limit - being no stranger to leaps of rhetoric, myself - and had to pose the question.