What's that sound?

[AaronMalcomb]

I'll have to plug C&F's own Jon C. I bought a delrin R&R 5000 series (i.e. design derived from R&Rs with serial numbers around 5000) with plain rings.

After witnessing Catherine McEvoy wail away on a couple of Jon's flutes I thought that if I got one of his, I'd sound like Catherine.

Though I did witness Catherine play a couple of Jon's flutes (one of which she eventually bought) I based my decision on my own trial of said flutes. I was just trying to tweak Loren's blood pressure.

[Loren]

No use dude, I'm off my soap box now, so my BP didn't even blip


Loren

[jim stone]

I don't think it's an entirely useless exercise (except of course as Loren has pointed out, if you're trying to match a tone to an instrument).

I found it quite fascinating, for example, to see in the list of flutes the number of times "Murray" and "Rudall & Rose" comes up, along with "Grinter", "Hamilton", "Olwell", "Wilkes".

And the number of not-times that other flutes (sometimes gushingly described around here) come up.

Not that this means anything of course, except that the players who appear on the WFO CDs, who by definition have achieved a certain standard of proficiency, play instruments from a relatively small number of makers.

Careful my friend, talk like that could make you downright unpopular around here!

Ah. Well, of course the lists are nothing more
than interesting... lists. These...lists... are
interesting but, like everything else
in this business, they aren't necessarily dependable.
Some very controversial...uhm... lists... about flutes out there, in fact.
If one wishes to be so guided, fine. Personally I don't consider them
decisive. There's a report around here that the Hall Crystal Flute
has a rockin' hard low D perfect for ITM, for example, and it comes from a board-member whose opinions have been expressed
many times...

uhm...

Death to the lists! Deeeeaaaaath! <in a Bernard Hill voice>

Hey, that's copywrited. Get your own flippin writers!

[Jens_Hoppe]

and the sound you hear is 95% player, 5% flute.

The flute is gaining ground now, up from 1% the last time you quoted numbers! Who knows where it will end in month or two.

[Loren]

and the sound you hear is 95% player, 5% flute.

The flute is gaining ground now, up from 1% the last time you quoted numbers! Who knows where it will end in month or two.

Indeed, it's up to 7% today, by my calculations. I suspect the flute will account for 100% of the sound by the end of the year. Of course, it may be that my math is flawed - the numbers keep fluctuating since I added in the "Subjective" factor that is so highly regarded here.


Loren

[GaryKelly]

and the sound you hear is 95% player, 5% flute.

The flute is gaining ground now, up from 1% the last time you quoted numbers! Who knows where it will end in month or two.

I suspect the flute will account for 100% of the sound by the end of the year.

It's already here, in the form of the spooky "fly-by-eye" Eb Murray

[Cathy Wilde]

and the sound you hear is 95% player, 5% flute.

The flute is gaining ground now, up from 1% the last time you quoted numbers! Who knows where it will end in month or two.

Indeed, it's up to 7% today, by my calculations. I suspect the flute will account for 100% of the sound by the end of the year. Of course, it may be that my math is flawed - the numbers keep fluctuating since I added in the "Subjective" factor that is so highly regarded here.


Loren

When it gets to 14, sell.

[crookedtune]

[quote="GaryKelly
It's already here, in the form of the spooky "fly-by-eye" Eb Murray [/quote]

The only flute to win a Milli Vanilli endorsement!

[Loren]

[quote="GaryKelly
It's already here, in the form of the spooky "fly-by-eye" Eb Murray

The only flute to win a Milli Vanilli endorsement! [/quote]


Rob and Fab approve!

[Cathy Wilde]

D'you think those are real quadriceps?

[Denny]

D'you think those are real quadriceps?

bunk...

[tin tin]

Warning: Gravitas ahead.

We may be well past the point of any attempts at serious dialog in this thread, but I'll try anyway.

From page 1:

...this is the myth of the "Pratten vs R&R". People, particularly here on the message board, have come to associate a flute player's sound, with the instrument he/she plays - If one thinks of Kevin Crawford, they say "Ah, that lovely, complex R&R sound", and when they think of Seamus Egan, they say to themselves "Oh yes, that's the dry, Honking Pratten sound" But this is really not so at all. Let me illustrate:

[Loren goes on to discuss the wide range of colors and sounds a certain Big Name flute player can achieve on one instrument.]

To further complicate matters (and support the "It's the player, not the instrument" addage), on (at least) one of this certain flutist's albums, he plays both Rudall and Pratten model flutes. There's perhaps some difference in tone color, but then, he's a very colorful player regardless of the flute. Without reading what he plays in the liner notes, I'd never think "Oh, he must have switched to a different model Wilkes for this tune." Regardless of the model (or even maker, as he plays flutes by a couple different ones), in the end, he sounds like himself, not the flute.

And that's really the end goal--to sound like oneself. The players I most admire are the ones who sound most like themselves--they've spent the time and effort to get to know themselves and have learned how to express who they are in music. (The flute is simply the tool--important, but just a tool.) Players I don't admire are the ones who have loads of technique, but it's not put in the service of true self-expression. And then there's Milli Vanilli. I don't admire them, either.

[AaronMalcomb]

To further complicate matters (and support the "It's the player, not the instrument" addage), on (at least) one of this certain flutist's albums [Seamus Egan], he plays both Rudall and Pratten model flutes. There's perhaps some difference in tone color, but then, he's a very colorful player regardless of the flute. Without reading what he plays in the liner notes, I'd never think "Oh, he must have switched to a different model Wilkes for this tune." Regardless of the model (or even maker, as he plays flutes by a couple different ones), in the end, he sounds like himself, not the flute.

This is true on JMV's CDs too. On "Er Pasker" it says in the notes when he's playing a D Wilkes Rudall or a D Wilkes Pratten but I can't tell the difference. They both have that incomparable JMV sound. So either I have the lugs of a luddite or it's the player, not the instrument (ITPNTI™). Of course, JMV may not be the best proponent of ITPNTI™ as he is a reknowned flute polygamist.

That's right, I'm Trademarking ITPNTI

[tin tin]

That's who I assumed Loren was referring to...at any rate, it's who I was referring to (and Er Pasker is the album I had in mind).

[Loren]

Flute hopping, to find the flute that helps you best express yourself, is a completely different and valid affair, once you've mastered the instrument, don't you think?


Loren