What is the South?

[Jack]

Inspired by this thread: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=557419

I thought I would ask those Americans who live in the South how you define (y)our region.

There's a part of Kentucky (Bubbleland) which is in Missouri, the northern Panhandle of West Virginia reaches just father north than Pittsburgh, most of the bottom half of Ohioans consider themselves Southerners, and Florida and Texas are both different in many ways (economic, cultural, historical) than the other states which are included in the term "the South," so I just want to open discussion as to how you, Southerners, define "the South."

[peeplj]

I'm going to put all of the above, because you can define the South in any of those ways.

The South is the geographical area which comprised the nation known as the Confederate States of America.

The South is also the aggregate of the people who live in that area and who define themselves as belonging to the South.

The South is also a collection of social conventions and mores.

It's all of these things, and more besides.

And, one day, it just might rise again.

--James

[Congratulations]

I feel like "the South"--that is, the one that was shoved down my throat as a child--is very, very small. In fact, it may only exist in country songs. At any rate, I haven't seen this "South" that everyone speaks of, and I am skeptical as to its existence.

Perhaps it is of some bygone era; one to which a number of people cling hopelessly. And probably that time of yesteryear is further distorted by the glass through which it is viewed--not rose-colored, I'd say, but probably the green of John Deere tractors and newly ripe watermelon rinds.

[FJohnSharp]

It's a state of mind.

[Joseph E. Smith]

The South is my home.

[chas]

I feel like "the South"--that is, the one that was shoved down my throat as a child--is very, very small.

The South that I've had shoved down my throat, as resident for a decade each in two different Border States, is the Confederacy. I had a friend who lived in Luray, VA, and Hagerstown, MD. They're all of, what, 30-40 miles apart. She absolutely hated living in Yankee Land, aka the North, and loved the Gentlemanly South.

To me, there's a whole lotta difference between Maryland and Virginia, but a whole lot more difference between Maryland and New England.

When you come down to it, there isn't any abrupt North-South change, and there may be bigger differences among the different parts of the country than there are between the North and South. There's really a continuum, with the culture of the country being more like an octopus than like a line.

[gonzo914]

The defining factors are sweet tea and grits. If you go into a restaurant and order tea, and it comes with sugar already in it, you are in the South. If you go into a restaurant for breakfast and your bacon and eggs comes with grits, you are in the South. All other factors are secondary.

[Congratulations]

The defining factors are sweet tea and grits. If you go into a restaurant and order tea, and it comes with sugar already in it, you are in the South. If you go into a restaurant for breakfast and your bacon and eggs comes with grits, you are in the South. All other, factors are secondary.

Also: fire ants.

[Jack]

The defining factors are sweet tea and grits. If you go into a restaurant and order tea, and it comes with sugar already in it, you are in the South. If you go into a restaurant for breakfast and your bacon and eggs comes with grits, you are in the South. All other, factors are secondary.

Also: fire ants.

This is not true. Fire ants don't grow in most of Kentucky or West Virginia (where it is too cold), but they do grow in California, Oregon, and Washington state as well as Brazil, Guinea, and India.

[Uilliam]

I am not American nor do I hail frae the South but ma heart is wi ye ever since I saw the Southpark episode when General Cartman Lee beat them Yankees and almost rewrote History for the Confed-er-ahh-see

agus
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

[Walden]

It's a relative question, isn't it. To me, Kansas is the north and Durant is the south. But... we are defining what are southern states...

Someone defined it as what used to be the Confederate States of America. Here is a map of the states and territories of the CSA. The ones in pink, the Border States, were claimed by the Confederacy, but not actually under Confederate control.



What was then known as the Southwest was that portion of the southern states which were west of the Mississippi. This region would include Arkansas, Texas, Oklahoma, and Louisiana. Today, while the notion of this area as the West or Southwest continues, the term Southwest stirs up more images of the desert Southwest, and these states wind up being identified as south central or such.

As for a definitive answer to your poll question. There's no definitive answer.

Culturally, it's hard to say that Kentucky and West Virginia are not aligned with Tennessee, though Tennessee was definitely a Confederate state. I don't think, therefore, that carving any rules in stone will work.

[Flyingcursor]

And, one day, it just might rise again.

--James

Turner Broadcasting anyone?


I've always referred to the US Civil War Southwest as the Trans-Missippippi theater. Anything west of the Alleghenies and Geogia but east of the Missippippi as "The Western Theater" and the rest as the Eastern Theater.

In Walden's map you would have to draw in a pink area in East Tennessee/West North Carolina (Cowtime's neighborhood) since they were pro-union. You'd also have to draw a pink area in central Alabama. You might consider pink areas in parts of Maryland and certainly the entire western part of Virginia since West Virginia suceeded from Virginia after it suceeded from the Union.
There are quite a few "might-have-beens" in terms of allegiance. New York City proposed becoming an independent country. New England toyed with the idea of sucession well before the existence of the Confederacy. South Carolina considered suceeding from the Confederacy.

Considering the map wasn't as clear as history has tried to make it, would anyone not consider East TN or Central AL as the South?

What is the "North"? Clearly New England is different from the Great Lakes states. Pennsylvania is so long that it's east and west halves are quite a bit different from each other culturally. Ohio and Indiana have all kinds of cultural diversity.

[missy]

Ohio and Indiana have all kinds of cultural diversity.

Yeah, we want to give Cleveland to Canada!

Most people that live in Ohio would consider Kentucky the South, but, of course, it wasn't part of the Confederacy (which I'd bet most people in Ohio don't know). Many in Kentucky fought for the North, others for the South, and some for BOTH!
Ohio, and the Cincinnati area in particular, played a big part in the "Underground Railroad". And, of course, Harriet Beecher Stowe was from here (and yes, I know slavery was NOT the only reason for the war, but we're talking perceptions today). So most people here see the Ohio River as the "dividing line".

And we DON'T do sweet tea and we don't do grits.

[fel bautista]

I like sweet tea and grits. Gotta have sweet tea with fried chicken.

[flanum]

Im not from MERIKAY either.
Over here im from Cavan which is in the Republic but also in Ulster.
Im from the south in that resepect, yet im from the North of the south, or as some southerners refer to us as south of the north!