new keyed chanter

[jdevereux]

Cool...he is not a slave to tradition.

...but he should be!

[canpiper]

I wonder if UP's will go the way of the Pastoral Pipe?

[oliver]

I think it's good somebody sometimes think about possible evolutions, otherwise, even uilleann pipes wouldn't exist... Knowing Benoit, I think his system won't hamper the traditional way of playing, because he's really rooted in the tradition, at least when playing is concerned.
Having not tried it yet, I keep my judgement for myself. Maybe it's great, maybe it's crap. Those who don't like it can always stick to the old style, and that's what I'm doing for the moment.

[maw]

Bryan Howard, that's the name i was trying to think of. Has anyone played one of his keyed chanters?

I think Buskersean might have one

[Patrick D'Arcy]

What's going on Ted?

Dougal.

[billh]

->>I LOVE MY BRICK!!!<<--

[Patrick D'Arcy]

LOL! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cSEt3biFxI

[pudinka]

Quote:
Cool...he is not a slave to tradition.


...but he should be!

So why should he be? Are traditional designs at risk of extiction - is change here to be feared or loathed? Did the work of the Taylors kill off the work of those who came before? Most sets made today (save by our good man in Dingle) are "styled" after much older sets - those I have seen, at least.

My house has an indoor toilet, but my grandparents - who lived on a farm & used to tell me things like, "blow out the light" - preferred thier old outhouse to thier indoor toilet. While I am making no equation here, I am personally glad that both plumbing and lighting technology have advanced since my grandparent's day.

[Joseph E. Smith]

I wonder if UP's will go the way of the Pastoral Pipe?

Let's pray they do not.

[Uilliam]

As far as I know Brian uses pin mounts and has used some form of linkage aka Boehm for his keys,but has not developed the chanter to play in the different keys.
Personally I don't think many pipemakers would go that way for whatever reason .
The pastoral pipes morphed into UP they didnae become extinct(there are still plenty in Museos)the UP just became more popular because I think it had more playing options.
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

[oliver]

I'd just like to add this : Benoit could have made pipes the traditional way (he was even encouraged to do so by Alain Froment), but he preferred to spend time and energy designing this new system, which I think is very courageous, especially as he didn't make any money at all for ten years.
This, I think, tells how passionate the man is .
Anyway, I'll let you know how this chanter feels when I have tried it.

[pudinka]

Benoit could have made pipes the traditional way (he was even encouraged to do so by Alain Froment), but he preferred to spend time and energy designing this new system, which I think is very courageous, especially as he didn't make any money at all for ten years.
This, I think, tells how passionate the man is.

I don't want to sound too much like Ayn Rand here, but I think this is what it sometimes takes and individual tangency should be encouraged or at least, left alone. It often takes an effort to step off of the circular track of tradition, to try to do something different from what is the accepted standard/ideal no matter what the endeavor. Comments on this forum often seem to show that changes (even if they change nothing in the end) are nearly always met with resistance or riddicule...nothing new.

I think Olivier is correct and we would not have uilleann pipes today had someone not thought about things a little differently and had the courage/passion to slowly change (or even improve?) the designs of what we all know, love and hate today.

[Ted]

I have not seen the Benoit, so cannot comment on it. I have seen the keyed Howard, which is quite innovative. The bottom thumb plays any of the four keys. They are pin mounted as are Rogge's. I actually found the Howard fairly easy to adapt to, and actually a good solution to for ease of use. The f key touch is below the thumb, while the other 3 key touches are in line above the thumb. The c key touch is furthest from the thumb, at the top of the row. As this is the most used key, it requires a bit of practice to hit it quickly and accurately. The pin mounts allow rather easy intallation on an unkeyed chanter.

[benoit trémolières]

[ Revival - Mod ]

After 25 years of apprenticeship, maybe now would be a good time to get a bit out of my lair, and display some information about my work...
I actually spend more than ten years to make out this " improved" chanter, which, in the end, appear not to raise much interest amongst the piper community !
The truth is that it gives a very expensive instrument, for something as 10% benefit
My purpose was simply to make a playable key-system.
As soon as, as a young piper, I had a fully keyed chanter at hand, I found it very usefull in many occasions ( and not only to play fiddle tunes ).

But it won't take long before I get aware that this system was obviously not really suitable to play irish music, as played at the present day.
Because I had the workshop and the technical knowledge, I choosed to design this chanter (as seen on the pictures above- which is actually a left-handed one).
I wanted to make the keys something more than an expensive decoration.
Financially speaking, it has proved to be not the best commercial option...
When I got ready to start on the businness, I found myself moneyless, and orderings not arising as expected.
So I got back to my former job: carpenter, for a few years.

Things are now turning over again, and I'm trying to make up for the lost time :

D drones are allwright
A few C and B chanters have been made out
Keyed chanters, of more "standart" look, are on progress
regulators will be off during the next four or five months

About this question on " what is traditional or not ?" , my opinion is that, concerning the UP making, the word could mean something and his opposite.
It appears that, to my mind, that this so to say tradition is , since the beginning, deeply rooted in : "not doing things as they've been done before"!

It started with the two full octaves of the pastoral bagpipes, to follow with THE heresy -comparing wwwwith ALL the other woodwind instruments- of removing definitly the bell of the chanter off !
Rest of the history consist in nothing but an uninterompted chain of improvements and experiencys - not allways clever- passing by adding one, and two, then three or more regulators, tryings of many designs of keywork ( as the Taylor did).
Some sets have been made of plain silver, some were fitted with two sets of drones ( to be able to play in two different keys), sounding boxes were placed at the end of the longuest drones ( or not!).
The amount of drones varied from two ( Taylor again) to three, the tendency nowaday is to adding one more, playing the fifth.
There have been bottom stoppers on chanters, hollow drones stocks, metal or wooden caps and tops,folded head of bass regulators, not to mention adding keys to get some few notes on the third octave, tunable drone slides, double chanters, etc....

In such conditions, what does exactly mean " tradition", if not one of perpetual changes and improvements?

So where am I placing my own job, amongst such a profuseness?

My mind is that, about sound or timber, the best have already been reached by the ancient makers.
In this matter, I can be considered as "very traditional", in the way this word have been accepted in this post.
All my chanters bores are copies of old instruments. And not the smallest part of the job is to re-discover how people like Rowsome did their own reeds !
That's why it is not completly true to compare my improvements to Theobald Boehm's: His purpose was precisely to enhance the sounding possibilitys of the classical flute, taking advantage of the new technical means of that time.

My aim is only to make what are, in my regards, good instruments, better!

That's why,concerning the organologic aspect of the thing, I am more open minded.
In other terms, why can't we take benefits of using technics developed since two hundred years ( something like a tradition?) in classical instruments making?
There is a lot to do in this way, to make our bagpipes more playable and reliable.

I take that, you'll have understand, more than an acknowledgement to the " tradition" than a betrayal !

[karl]

I have not seen the Benoit, so cannot comment on it. I have seen the keyed Howard, which is quite innovative. The bottom thumb plays any of the four keys. They are pin mounted as are Rogge's. I actually found the Howard fairly easy to adapt to, and actually a good solution to for ease of use. The f key touch is below the thumb, while the other 3 key touches are in line above the thumb. The c key touch is furthest from the thumb, at the top of the row. As this is the most used key, it requires a bit of practice to hit it quickly and accurately. The pin mounts allow rather easy intallation on an unkeyed chanter.

Here is a video of Brian playing one of his keyed chanters.