the Rhine is ca-alm-ly flo-owing ~~~

[talasiga]

My 1930 academic manual of music theory tells me that in Germany
the note B
(the note XOO OOO on a D Irish flute)
is called H
and the note Bb
(the note XXX XXX on a Bb whistle)
is called B.

What are they doink now in Germany?
Still the same?

Oh vat can it bee ee that ails me ~~~

[Congratulations]

I heard once that this use of the letter H had something to do with Bach. I think composers would write 4-movement pieces, in which the key of the first movement would be B, followed by A, then C and H, as tribute to the great composer. I think my band director told me this, so it is probably a GIGANTIC lie.

[Bloomfield]

My 1930 academic manual of music theory tells me that in Germany
the note B
(the note XOO OOO on a D Irish flute)
is called H
and the note Bb
(the note XXX XXX on a Bb whistle)
is called B.

What are they doink now in Germany?
Still the same?

Oh vat can it bee ee that ails me ~~~

And if that were not enough, I have it on good authority that in Germany

polar bears
are called Eisbären

and a camshaft
is called Nockenwelle

and certain people
Volltrottel.

[Innocent Bystander]

And a "C" chord on the guitar in France is called an "M" chord.
It's just a deliberate attempt to confuse.
What do they know? They don't even speak English (or Irish, come to that).

[talasiga]

I would have thought they would have call it an "Ut chord".

[Innocent Bystander]

I would have thought they would have call it an "Ut chord".

There you go. As I said, it's a deliberate attempt to confuse.
(I admit it, it's a while since I looked at a French Music book. It may not have been a C chord. But it was definitely an "M".)

[talasiga]

I don't know IB. I suspect the French would call an E chord a M chord as in M for Mi.

My understanding is that the Europeans don't conceive of the sol-fa as a tonic sol-fa as the Britsih do (or can) but see the Doh or (Ut) to be set at C. In other words merely as alternate names for the letter names of the notes.

The indic system does not name notes but intervals and so the Doh (the Sa) is whatever the tonic is. Major intervals are called Ri, Ga, Ma, Pa, Dha, Ni and minor intervals are expressed as qualifications of those terms (as in Komal Ga means minor third and Tivra Ma means sharp 4th).

In coping with western terms South Asians often refer to C as number 1, C# as number 2 etc . So, if I ask a trained singer what his or her tonic will be and what the mode of scale will be "Kaun Sa aur kaun raag?"(so that I can pick the appropriate keyless flute) they may say something like, "Kaafi Numbar 7, Ji"
which means Dorian mode with G tonic which means I use my F key bansuri or my C key flute.

[Cynth]

While a staff of five lines was adopted in France for vocal music, one of six lines was used in Italy. Instrumental music employed staves of varying numbers of lines until the 16th century when the five-line staff became the standard. Accidental notation derives from variations of the letter B, particularly, the sharp and natural from the square B quadratum, and the flat from the B rotundum. In the earliest European music notation, 4-line staff Gregorian chant manuscripts, only B needed to be altered. It could be flattened, so altering from its position in the hexachordum durum ('hard hexachord': G-A-B-C-D-E) where it is natural, to that in the hexachordum molle ('soft hexachord': F-G-A-Bb-C-D) where it is flat. B is absent from the third hexachord, hexachordum naturale ('natural hexachord': C-D-E-F-G-A).

This use of B as the only altered note explains some modern notational peculiarities. The flat sign actually derives from a round B, to signify the B of the soft hexachord, that is B flat (hence the name of the flat sign in French bémol from medieval French bé mol — modern French bé mou — or 'soft b') and originally meant only the altered B, Bb. The natural sign derives from a square B, to indicate the B of the 'hard hexachord', that is, B natural (hence the name of the natural sign in French bécarre from medieval French bé carre, earlier bé quarre — modern French bé carré — or 'square b') and originally meant only the unaltered B, B natural. For the same reason, in the German notation the letter B only designates the B flat while the letter H, which is actually a deformation of a square B designates the B natural. As polyphonic harmony developed more alterations were required. The first sharp in use was F#, then came the second flat Eb, then C#, as so on. By the 16th-century Bb, Eb, Db, Ab, Gb and F#, C#, G#, D# and A# were all in use.

B rotundum

B quadratum
I'm not sure I am showing the corrrect form of the B quadratum. Some sources said there was a capital B quadratum used, I think. Which would probably look more like an H and the natural symbol. Oh, the danger of a little knowledge gotten from the Internet! I couldn't find any photos of examples of this notation.

In music, the BACH motif is the sequence of notes B flat, A, C, B natural.

This four-note motif has been used by a number of composers, usually as a homage to Johann Sebastian Bach. The first known example, however, is in a piece by Jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck in the 17th century—it is possible, though not certain, that he used it in homage to one of Johann Sebastian's ancestors, many of whom were themselves musicians.

The possibility of being able to spell the surname Bach in this way comes about because in German B indicates what in English is called B flat, while H indicates what in English is called B natural.

J. S. Bach himself used it as a fugue subject in the final part of Die Kunst der Fuge (BWV 1080), a work he did not complete before he died in 1750. It appears in passing in several of his other pieces, such as at the end of the fourth of the canonic variations on "Vom Himmel Hoch", BWV 769. Its appearance in the penultimate bar of the Kleines harmonisches Labyrinth, BWV 591, is not thought to be very significant and the work may even be spurious (Johann David Heinichen has been suggested as a possible composer). It shows up in the St Matthew Passion in the section where the chorus sings "This man was God's own son most truly." In many pieces, while the exact notes B-A-C-H are not played, a transposition of the motif is used (a note sequence with the same intervals: down a semitone, up a minor third, down a semitone).

[Bloomfield]

Nice research, Cynth.

B rotundum

B quadratum
I'm not sure I am showing the corrrect form of the B quadratum. Some sources said there was a capital B quadratum used, I think. Which would probably look more like an H and the natural symbol. Oh, the danger of a little knowledge gotten from the Internet! I couldn't find any photos of examples of this notation.

This is the modern B quadratum. Might look familiar.


Here is what the B mol (Bb) looked like in Gregorian chant, followed by the modern transcription:



Source: Gregorian notation (nice page)

[Cynth]

This is the modern B quadratum. Might look familiar.


Here is what the B mol (Bb) looked like in Gregorian chant, followed by the modern transcription:



Source: Gregorian notation (nice page)

You know, I saw that very example but I didn't understand it. I thought the B mol would look rounded, like "b". And I somehow had the idea that the notation would be in actual letters of the alphabet---don't even ask! I was totally confused . It wasn't really good research, I'm afraid, it was just some ignorant delving.

But one idea I thought was neat was how it was simplest to write the B note differently to indicate a flat when that was the only note to have a flat. Inventing some special sign would have been more complicated. But when others came along, then it would have gotten harder for the brain to deal with having all these different forms of letters to deal with so then a sign became the simpler alternative. This is somehow reminding me of syllables versus sounds----if you have too many types of syllables then it gets simpler to have a symbol for each sound that you can put together to make syllables. Oh dear, afraid the weather has fried my brain.