Most popular embrochure style for a McGee flute?

I.D.10-t · Post by **I.D.10-t** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:09 am

Henke wrote:Think about what you want your new flute to be instead.

I wish I had said that.

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:43 am

Cathy Wilde wrote: But it sure is fun to play, sort of like driving a monster truck over a pile of banjos.

Gary K needs to amend the Auto Reviewer to incorporate this phrase.

Il Friscaletto · Post by **Il Friscaletto** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:10 am

JessieK wrote:Comparing a Hamilton and a Seery: a Hamilton is stronger, more focused and easier to play. The sound is richer and the feel is superior. The craftsmanship is also in another league.

That's a pretty strong endorsment!

:)

Aerowhip · Post by **Aerowhip** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:27 am

My 2 cents worth - I have a 6-key McGee Rudall Perfected with 2 semicircles embouchure, and I love it. It took a while to adjust, but it rocks. I've not played his other embouchures, at least not in recent history, so I can't help with a comparsion, and I'm not going to bore you all with unhelpful descriptions (dancing about architechture?), but my other flute is a keyless Olwell, and it's feeling pretty neglected these days.

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:34 am

Aerowhip wrote:<snip>and I'm not going to bore you all with unhelpful descriptions (dancing about architechture?), <snip>

Hey! I resemble that remark!

dow · Post by **dow** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:28 pm

I've got a keyless GLP with his Improved Elliptical. When I ordered the flute, I was very unsure about what embouchure to get, as I'm a fairly new player. The reason that I ordered this embouchure with my flute is that Terry told me that if I didn't like it, that he could recut it into the rounded rectangle, but not the other direction. I've been very happy with my decision.

BTW, I've read that folks seem to really like the two semicircle design as well. I believe that Doc Jones plays one.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:17 pm

Il Friscaletto wrote: I see your point Henke, but it seems I just want a similar sound in wood. I know, why not just play the Seery all the time, but I really want a wooden flute!

..............

As I said earlier but you seem to have not noticed:-

If you want a flute as much as possible like your Seery Delrin flute but you want it in wood, you could consider getting a wooden Seery. I notice he makes them in Mopane which is a wood.

Il Friscaletto · Post by **Il Friscaletto** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:09 am

I noticed. I want the same, but different.

;)

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:05 am

I've spent a lot of time with Terry's flutes. All models and all embouchures.

The More I play them the more I like all three cuts. I'd be hard pressed to have a "favorite".

I'd also say that the rounded rectangle is much more versatile than Brother Henke is giving it credit for. It does tend to be purer and louder than the improved elliptical but with a bit of experience it offers a wonderful tonal pallette.

That said, there is nothing "Quiet" about a McGee Pratten with the elliptical cut. Terry's flutes are characteristically strong in volume.

Terry McGee's personal flute (a Rudall 5088 as I recall) has a rounded rectangle embouchure.

My current favorite cut might be the two semi-circle. It kind of offers the best of both I think. But, again, I could die a happy man if stranded on a dessert island with any flute of Terry's regardless of the embouchure cut.

In summary of the characteristics of the three I'd say:

1. Rounded rectangle - loudest and purest tone by nature but plenty capable of tonal complexity in the hands of a decent player. Easiest to play.

2. Two semi-circle - a good compromise between the two offering the good characteristics of both. Very flexible whether you want open and lovely or dark "Trad" sound.

3. Improved elliptical - Darker and more complex. A bit more attention to embouchure needed . If you want to have "all Trad all the time" and like to practice get this one. THe sweet spot is a bit harder to it than the other two but still easier to hit than most makers flutes. I would say McGee and Olwell fltues are most likely to "play themselves" than any other maker.

Always remember that the most important embouchure on any flute is the one the player creates with his mouth and throat. I am not a super player by any means, but I can make any McGee embouchure do anything I want it to do volume-wise or tonally. I'm just a bit lazy and prefer 1 & 2.

Cheers,

Doc

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:52 am

Doc Jones wrote:But, again, I could die a happy man if stranded on a dessert island with any flute of Terry's regardless of the embouchure cut.

Hrrrmm. . . gelato, creme brulee, cheesecake?

I could die happy on an Icecream Sundae island

Doc, what's the skinny on Terry's regular flutes being blown lefty? I know Hamilton claims performance will suffer significantly on his own flutes if blown backwards. OTOH all the Olwell's I've tried seem pretty much symmetrical. Perhaps this is one issue that Henke encountered?

Terry McGee · Post by **Terry McGee** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:57 am

I don't normally respond to questions about my flutes on the list as I assume if someone really wanted my opinion, they know where to find me. But there's some interesing issues here I'd like to buy into.

As Doc says above, I currently play my Rudall 5088 model with a Rounded Rectangle embouchure. I haven't always played Rounded Rectangle though - like most "old-timers" I started with original 19th century flutes with their elliptical embouchures. That was about 35 years ago! When I first started making my own flutes (about 31 years ago), I made plain round embouchures at first, then progressed on to making elliptical. I'm not sure when the Rounded Rectangles came in, but I'd guess at around 9 years ago. Unlike Henke, I found immediately that it improved my playing and my playing satisfaction very considerably and I've been playing it ever since.

Well not quite ever since. It occurred to me recently that I should give the old elliptical another try, given that my approach to the embouchure had changed a lot after experimenting with many of the 19th century methods talked about on my website. But, try as I might, I was unable to get the Elliptical or even the Two Semicircles embouchures up to my satisfaction, so back to the rectangles. I still play elliptical a lot of course - my Research Collection flutes are almost all elliptical, and 19th century flutes and other modern makers' flutes sent to me for repair or improvements are almost always elliptical. But when it comes down to several hours of hard playing at the session or on a 4-hour Ceili band gig I want what works best for me.

As to which is the most popular, I'd be hard pressed to say - I'm constantly making all three types. On my "2002 Self Indulgent Flute-maker's World Tour", I took three flutes (Pratten, Rudall Perfected and Rudall Refined models) and three heads (elliptical, two semicircles and rectangles types) and poked them in front of anyone who would stand still long enough. Again, I couldn't say which was most popular. To some players, it was a revelation - they immediately fell in love with the Rounded Rectangles (they were of course playing Elliptical). But some other players were like Henke - actively disliking the Rectangles, while many couldn't decide which of the three they preferred.

It's also interesting (as usual) to consult history. The first rounded rectangles seem to show up in the early 19th century. Yet almost all English 19th century flutes were made with elliptical holes, and that included Boehm style flutes. Indeed, rounded rectangle embouchures didn't come into general usage untill about 1950, but of course all modern flutes come with them now. Perhaps that explains why there is a lot of interest in old Boehm flutes by makers such as Louis Lot and Rudall Carte. Perhaps their players just prefer an elliptical embouchure hole.

So, I don't believe that any of the holes are intrinsically better than the others, but I believe most firmly that some suit some players more than the others. I don't know if I'm an extreme case of this, but I'd rate my increase in satisfaction by at least 30% and maybe closer to 50%. And personal satisfaction has to be what this is about. Even some of my professional flute playing customers have gone for the rectangular embouchure, with stunning results, so don't assume it's just for the weak and lazy!

I don't think it's surprising that different shapes suit different folks - just look at a bunch of people and see just how many factors in their lower faces vary so enormously. Imagine if trailer manufacturers had to deal with so many different coupling challenges!

So how do you find out what embouchure would suit you? Unfortunately, I have no easy answer other than try it. (Perhaps I could devise a kissing test - I'd be happy to apply that to Lesl, Cathy and JessieK, but Henke and Wormdiet are just going to have to find out themselves!). I think I could go this far though:

If you are perfectly happy with the results you are getting from your current flute (with whatever embouchure type it has), then you have no need to look further. But if you've put a lot of work into your flute, but are still not finding the embouchure easy or reliable, then I'd definitely suggest trying out something dramatically different.

Terry

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:03 am

Great post Terry. I think you are right.
As I said before, the rounded rectangles embouchure didn't do it for me, but lots of other people love them.

I feel like I owe you an apology.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:48 am

Terry McGee wrote: .......
As Doc says above, I currently play my Rudall 5088 model with a Rounded Rectangle embouchure. I haven't always played Rounded Rectangle though - like most "old-timers" I started with original 19th century flutes with their elliptical embouchures. That was about 35 years ago! When I first started making my own flutes (about 31 years ago), I made plain round embouchures at first, then progressed on to making elliptical. I'm not sure when the Rounded Rectangles came in, but I'd guess at around 9 years ago. Unlike Henke, I found immediately that it improved my playing and my playing satisfaction very considerably and I've been playing it ever since.
.........

Terry, what risks might there be for a flute maker
in changing an elliptical embouchure to a rounded rectangular one?
(I am meaning technical risks and not social or customer relations ones).

In other words "tweaking" an embouchure radically .

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:37 am

I think we should make Terry's post a sticky. (Except for the kissing test part

; Larry might object -- unless, of course, he got to be Terry's assistant!

).

But I will say there have been many, many, MANY times over the last year and a half when I've wanted to at least hug Terry for making such a great flute.

Thank you, Terry. 'The Hoss' is a joy.

Terry McGee · Post by **Terry McGee** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:34 pm

Heh heh, thanks Cathy. Don't feel limited to a hug, at least on my behalf ....

Talisiga, re risks in tweaking ....

The obvious one - making sure the exisiting hole is not so big (either on the surface or at the junction with the bore, where it can be much larger due to undercutting) that vestiges of it will remain after cutting the new hole. Obviously also, lining up the new hole with the old hole has to be done with some care!

A less obvious one, and not really a risk but an outcome - because a larger hole will sharpen the flute, I usually put rounded rectangle holes a couple of mm further up the head than the two semicircle, and that a couple of mm further up than the elliptical. Not so easy to move holes, so if converting, you can expect to have to open the slide a few more mm.

Terry