Tune Ornamentation

Jumbuk · Post by **Jumbuk** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:15 pm

Nano:

It would be good to make this into some kind of a database. For those times when you wonder "how does that tune go exactly?" or "what do other players do with that tune?". I really like having clips like Brad's available for a quick listen.

I think it belongs somewhere in "flute world" rather than general ITM, because the treatment of the tune is idiomatic to the instrument. That's what I am looking for personally.

Don't know what "shells" are available through the forum or elsewhere to host this kind of thing. Maybe The Session?

Flutered · Post by **Flutered** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:10 am

I tried to load Brad's page out of interest but failed, probably due to fact that we live in rural area and have only slow dial up modem. It's worth considering this if you post .mp3 files - it is possible to make them a lot smaller if your change the file to mono rather than stereo, reduce quality etc. Makes it more accessible.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:15 am

Flutered wrote:It's worth considering this if you post .mp3 files - it is possible to make them a lot smaller if your change the file to mono rather than stereo, reduce quality etc. Makes it more accessible.

It's only 400 K (less than half a megabyte), not an excessively large file. When I was on dialup it took about 5-10 minutes to download a file that size. I've posted smaller versions of both files (now around 200k each).

(edited to add note that smaller files have been posted)

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:23 am

Jumbuk wrote:Nano:

It would be good to make this into some kind of a database. For those times when you wonder "how does that tune go exactly?" or "what do other players do with that tune?".

Sort of like "Clips 'n' Snips" you mean? It certainly answers the second of the two questions.

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:37 am

GaryKelly wrote:Sort of like "Clips 'n' Snips" you mean?

Or whistlethis.com ...

ISU Trout Bum · Post by **ISU Trout Bum** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:49 am

Wow - I've never seen whistle this! That is an excellent site. I know I don't have the time to build such a site right now for the flute, but it might not be a bad idea. Or, we could simply make this thread a "sticky" one.

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:14 am

Jumbuk wrote:Nano:

It would be good to make this into some kind of a database. For those times when you wonder "how does that tune go exactly?" or "what do other players do with that tune?". I really like having clips like Brad's available for a quick listen.

I think it belongs somewhere in "flute world" rather than general ITM, because the treatment of the tune is idiomatic to the instrument. That's what I am looking for personally.

Don't know what "shells" are available through the forum or elsewhere to host this kind of thing. Maybe The Session?

I see the flute-oriented thing. What I was thinking of would be a database covering ornamentation specific for whistles, pipes, fiddles, what have you, as well. Or maybe that would be too bloated? I'm not programming-savvy. It does seem to me that there would have to be some sort of limits set. Maybe all that's practical would be flute only?

Flutered · Post by **Flutered** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:27 am

I must be missing something Brad, when I follow the link all I get is a page with Windows Media Player but nothing plays or downloads further. Why can't I just save .mp3 to disc and run in what I wish?

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:03 pm

Nano, Do you know rows and columns?
Where there would be columns for the tune name, instrument, player and the MP3

You could search for a specific tune AND a specific instrument or any instrument.

Not and issue!

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:09 pm

Flutered wrote:I must be missing something Brad, when I follow the link all I get is a page with Windows Media Player but nothing plays or downloads further. Why can't I just save .mp3 to disc and run in what I wish?

Try right-clicking on the link and choose "Save Target As" and then save the file to your desktop. From there you can open it with whatever MP3 software you have. Hope that works!

Post by **Nanohedron** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:48 pm

Denny wrote:Nano, Do you know rows and columns?
Where there would be columns for the tune name, instrument, player and the MP3

You could search for a specific tune AND a specific instrument or any instrument.

Not and issue!

I am the lamest. This is not a secret. How I even find my way around the 'net is something of a minor miracle in itself.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:59 pm

Not to be too pessimistic, but most of the previous group attempts to do something like this have fizzled out, for a few reasons:

1. It's a lot of work to write out tunes with ornamentation included

2. If you don't have some experienced musicians involved it can end up being a case of the blind leading the blind, and most experienced musicians don't have the time or interest for this sort of thing.

3. There are already some good online resources for studying how traditional players use ornamentation. The best one in my opinion is the transcriptions of traditional players that was put together by Steve Jones, Peter Laban, and others:

http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html

Even though this is geared mainly toward whistle, there's a lot that a flute player could learn from here. Six months or a year spent closely listening to those files and following the transcriptions would probably be a lot more useful to a beginng or intermediate flute player than an ornamentation database.

I'm not trying to dissuade you from embarking on this project, just pointing out some of the issues that have been raised when others have attempted the same or similar things.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:33 pm

good points Brad.
The database part is easy...the rest is not.

Flutered · Post by **Flutered** » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:42 am

Thanks Brad, now I can hear you in all your glory! I'm inclined to think that the most natural way to pick up differing ways of ornamentation is to listen to different people playing the same tune and on different instruments. Kinda obvious and I suppose that is sort of what is proposed here but there's always 'danger' of people just learning a fixed ornamentation rather than varying on the fly. Mind you, the need to take a breath does tend to lead to variation anyway.

nitterwhiskers · Post by **nitterwhiskers** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:36 pm

I'd like to put forward a tune for the treatment. It's a simple jig called rose among the heather. You can see the notes here:

I find this tune annoyingly difficult to get any life/lift into it - especially the first part. Hope someone can chip in with a few suggestions.