HINDU/INDIAN TUNES

[talasiga]

Great thread. These instruments, while playable
for ITM, don't seem to ornament crisply, in my experience.
They are immensely expressive, of course.
It would be interesting to hear what
these folks would do with our flutes.
Will try these scales. Thanks.

I take it you've recovered from the blissful bout of Panna Babu.

here's some more online music. This time not flute but vocal.
Still relevant because the vocal music drives our instrumental music
and flute is most vocal of them all, no?


http://www.chandrakantha.com/products_a ... iragi.html

I particularly like the slow kheyal piece.

[talasiga]

I think Jim mentioned connecting Celtic music with Indian music.
.................

I was not aware of any severe separation.
It is more a matter of recognising the intrinsic link
and the good grace to explore the consonance between them
without marring their individuality.
Likewise with other modal trads.

BTW, its nearly midnight in our part of the world.
A good time for Raag Darbari:-
http://www.chandrakantha.com/audio/live ... i_alap.ram
This is the first of 3 movements.
As the scale for this raag eqates with the western natural minor
and she is singing in B, it is PERFECT for accompanying
with an Irish D flute from B (xoo ooo.)

Don't worry if some of the singing wavers from B minor notes,
this is transient due to the glissando so vital in this music.
Ultimately at every key point, she will reach and sit
on a B minor note
IE at the beginning and at the end of every glissando
you will get any of these B C# D E F# G A .

Darbari is a melancholic but majestic air.
One of the most popular airs in the Asawari
(Aeolian) group of Hindustani Raags.

[Wombat]

I think Jim mentioned connecting Celtic music with Indian music.
.................

I was not aware of any severe separation.
It is more a matter of recognising the intrinsic link
and the good grace to explore the consonance between them
without marring their individuality.
Likewise with other modal trads.

I don't think there is. In a way, noticing this was precisely what turned Sheila Chandra from a good looking young pop singer into a very fine and expressive interpreter and explorer of the many byways of her not all that unusual background ... born in Northern India, raised in the UK. She said that it all came together for her when she realised that the vocal decorations in the North Indian music of her family background were essentially the same as those she was hearing in British and Irish traditional music and in music from the Balkans.

[MarkB]

Gee what an interesting post and thread, I will have to spend time on this one at home later tonight and explore all the links.

Thanks to all!

MarkB

[peteinmn]

I must admitt that I have been a fan of Indian Raag music for many, many years. In fact there was an Indian musician named Ravi Shenkar (forgive the spelling) who became quite famous here in the 60's. During this era, it was rumored that among some folks, this was considered THE music to listen to after smoking certain herbal substances - not that I would ever have any personal experience with any herbal substances of course.

[talasiga]

I must admitt that I have been a fan of Indian Raag music for many, many years. In fact there was an Indian musician named Ravi Shenkar (forgive the spelling) who became quite famous here in the 60's. During this era, it was rumored that among some folks, this was considered THE music to listen to after smoking certain herbal substances - not that I would ever have any personal experience with any herbal substances of course.

:roll:

One need not drink Guiness
To fall for Irish music.
Ditto indica.

[talasiga]

An interview with Hariprasad Chaurasia:-

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/1 ... 0-06.shtml

[jim stone]

Thanks, lovely interview.
Once again it would be nice to
be able to combine playing flute with
spirituality, as these people do.
I think it has much to do with
the sort of music they play. Best

[talasiga]

Thanks, lovely interview.
Once again it would be nice to
be able to combine playing flute with
spirituality ..........

I dont feel its something you do.
It happens.

[talasiga]

The Hungarian minor scale starting with the tonic (three holes closed) is A B C D# E F G# A. I have played with my friend Akash, who plays a fabulous Bansuri flute, on a Low D whistle in the key of G. But here's the kicker, I had to tune it to "Just" intonation for the key of G. Otherwise some of the notes just didn't fit. When I tuned it this way it worked beautifully.

Ronaldo

Thanks Ronaldo.
This is Lydian Mode.
Therefore the Hungarian Minor is Lydian Scale.
We call this scale Kalyan in Hindustani Music.

There are many beautiful, popular raag-s in this scale
eg:- Yaman, Malsiri etc

As Kalyan requires no half holing from this xxx ooo starting point,
it is often regarded as the beginners' scale for classical bansuri which likes xxx ooo as tonic.

Anyone can do Lydian scale from xxx ooo.
No need for any custom made flute to do it.

This is totally wrong. I mustn't have been concentrating. First, Lydian is not a minor mode but a major mode. More importantly the interval progression evinced by "A B C D# E F G# A." is 2:1:3:1:1:3:1
and is for A harmonic minor scale BUT with an augmented 4th which comprehends the indo Raag Madhuvanti.

I am sorry if I lead anyone astray.
Apologies. (and thanks for the PM from anonymous)

[talasiga]

I think Jim mentioned connecting Celtic music with Indian music.
.................

I was not aware of any severe separation.
It is more a matter of recognising the intrinsic link
and the good grace to explore the consonance between them
without marring their individuality.
Likewise with other modal trads.

I don't think there is. In a way, noticing this was precisely what turned Sheila Chandra from a good looking young pop singer into a very fine and expressive interpreter and explorer of the many byways of her not all that unusual background ... born in Northern India, raised in the UK. She said that it all came together for her when she realised that the vocal decorations in the North Indian music of her family background were essentially the same as those she was hearing in British and Irish traditional music and in music from the Balkans.

I am not aware that Sheila Chandra said that and if she did I disagree because, from where I sit, the claim of decorative similarity goes against my thrust about good fusion NOT MARRING the individuality of each tradition.


I feel that the decorative approaches in the Indic trad (folk and classical) are very different to the those in the Irish trad. I work a lot with IT musos and the areas of commonality (for fusion) occur
*when the musics are comprehended in reference to drone
* when the melodic exploration of each stream encourages microtonal values
* when the selection of song/pieces are in the some mode or complementary modes
* when the evocative outcome is shared, albeit according the the diffrent landscape that each tradition evokes.

[brewerpaul]

I must admitt that I have been a fan of Indian Raag music for many, many years. In fact there was an Indian musician named Ravi Shenkar (forgive the spelling) who became quite famous here in the 60's. During this era, it was rumored that among some folks, this was considered THE music to listen to after smoking certain herbal substances - not that I would ever have any personal experience with any herbal substances of course.

Ravi Shankar is still very much alive and well and still touring. He's actually coming to Troy NY in the fall, and I can't wait. His daughter is an accomplished sitar player who combines that instrument with more Western instruments. Nice blending of the old and the new.

[Mitch]

The thing that I am finding about Indic music is the depth to which it weaves history, culture, philosophy and lifestyle into a cohesive mandala. You can't just sample it and go away - the minute you get even slightly intrigued, it just goes and goes and goes - and it demands committment.
(As if ITM weren't a full time occupation )

Here's a nice site to get lost in:

http://www.musicalnirvana.com/index.html

And thanks talasiga for having the patience to explain some raag-s and the buffalo legend thing. After that, I taped-over 2 of the holes on my Syn and got lost in a certain pentatonic for about 2 hours before I looked-up!

[Jetboy]

I am working with Mitch at Oz whistles on an Indian set of whistles designed for playing traditional Indic Raaga music using Poorvi/Bhairav/Hijaz tunings This will include a 4-hole pentatonic whistle, a standard 'western' diatonic 6 hole whistle and a 6-hole whistle tuned to a Bhairav scale. Keep an eye on Mitch's site at www.ozwhistles.com for more information on this as the project develops.

Anyone can always PM me if you want more info in the meantime.

[swb]

Here is another web site with lots of Indian flutes, recorded music, AND fighter kites (which are as much fun as tin whistles):

http://www.one-world-trading.com/

cheers: Scott