Sunrise Solstice at Stoneheng

[BillChin]

For those in the Pacific Northwest there is a full size replica of Stonehenge near the Maryhill museum in Oregon.

http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/about.htm#ston

[Denny]

And, the older I get, the more important the solstices become to me, not as intellectual symbolic concepts, but an intimate part of my ever-decreasing time on earth. It's taken me many years to truly appreciate this longest day of the year and how it makes me feel within the context of the earth's cycles. I have come to resent those short winter days and relish these long summer ones. I feel better, have more energy and feel a sense of hopefulness in terms of personal accomplishment. It's funny, I never would have thought it mattered.

I'm with ya on that one, eh!

[gonzo914]

And in western Nebraska, you can go to Carhenge.



Another Carhenge site

And a nice slideshow.

[djm]

Carhenge

Too bad they can't morph into druids and break dance or something.

djm

[Dale]

It wasn't like the picture this morning I hear. Pouring down and a mite chilly into the bargain. It's tough being a druid at times.

One of our chants goes:

...Celebrate eight times a year,
Bring some candles, bring some beer!

Hm. That part could just as easily be a Catholic wedding.

[Redwolf]

For those in the Pacific Northwest there is a full size replica of Stonehenge near the Maryhill museum in Oregon.

http://www.maryhillmuseum.org/about.htm#ston

It's in Washington, actually. Been there...it's nice (though very obviously fake when you get up close)...and quite an interesting thing to spot as you're driving along the interstate on the other side of the river!

Stonehenge was a highpoint of our visit to England last year. I know people complain about the nearness of the road and not being able to walk right up to the stones, but it's still an amazing thing to see.

On our way out there on the bus from Salisbury, however, I spotted a huge field full of porta-potties. I nudged my husband, nodded at the scene out the window, and said "look...it's loo-henge!"

Redwolf

[Tril Bluejacket]

Anyone here heard of Carhenge? It's about an hour's drive from my house... an hour's drive I've never bothered to take.

Photo link:

http://www.beautifulplaces.org/Car_heng ... orough.jpg

[SteveShaw]

Stonehenge was a highpoint of our visit to England last year. I know people complain about the nearness of the road and not being able to walk right up to the stones, but it's still an amazing thing to see.
Redwolf

In the good ol' days, before the battle of the beanfields etc. etc., access to Stonehenge was gloriously unfettered. On several occasions in my misspent youth I wandered around those stones, laying my hands on them and imagining. It was wonderful.

I do think you should study archaeology just a little if you want to get the best from such experiences. To have read just one book about it all before you go to such atmospheric sites will transform you from a rubbernecking tourist (one more obligatory site, one more set of snaps) into a bit of an aficionado, and you'll get so much more from the visit. A little bit of previous knowledge goes a long way.

[Redwolf]

Stonehenge was a highpoint of our visit to England last year. I know people complain about the nearness of the road and not being able to walk right up to the stones, but it's still an amazing thing to see.
Redwolf

In the good ol' days, before the battle of the beanfields etc. etc., access to Stonehenge was gloriously unfettered. On several occasions in my misspent youth I wandered around those stones, laying my hands on them and imagining. It was wonderful.

I do think you should study archaeology just a little if you want to get the best from such experiences. To have read just one book about it all before you go to such atmospheric sites will transform you from a rubbernecking tourist (one more obligatory site, one more set of snaps) into a bit of an aficionado, and you'll get so much more from the visit. A little bit of previous knowledge goes a long way.

We actually did quite a bit of advance preparation, since it was for a school trip.

An interesting geological note: Did you know that the stones used in the construction Newgrange come from the same source as some of the stones at Stonehenge (the bluestones, I believe). I saw an interview with one of the curators at Newgrange about that.

Redwolf

[djm]

There have been several BBC documentaries on the building of Stonehenge, including showing the sites where the various stones came from (some from Wales, some closer), the mining techniques, the "possible" transportation routes and methods (all in keeping with known technology and materials of the time). It was all very interesting.

One of these shows recreated the whole Stonehenge in extruded foam just so they could play with the alignment, study the acoustics, the natural light, astronomical observations, etc. The number of theories of what it was all about start to get as goofy as the modern day recreation of pseudo-druids. Sorry, but I can't help but laugh at people who take such guff literally.

djm

[SteveShaw]

We actually did quite a bit of advance preparation, since it was for a school trip.

Redwolf

Sorry - I wasn't suggesting that anyone posting hadn't done their homework - just making a general point!

Cheers

Steve

[alurker]

It indicates a certain amount of significance for those who designed and built it back in 3200BC.

Or a certain amount of pure coincidence and wishful thinking on behalf of onlookers 5200 years later.

Jeez Gary, how much do you know about these sites? Apart from that, do the maths: Point of sunrise and winter solstice combined - what are the chances? What 1000:1? 10,000:1? Couple those odds with the known significance of seasons and moon phases for the druids and you still want to write this design off as "pure coincidence". You gotta be kidding. If they just wanted a window they would have just put in a window.

[Jon C.]

Here is some pix of the Washington State "Stonehenge", maybe it should be called "Concretehenge"...

[Walden]

Jeez Gary, how much do you know about these sites? Apart from that, do the maths: Point of sunrise and winter solstice combined - what are the chances? What 1000:1? 10,000:1? Couple those odds with the known significance of seasons and moon phases for the druids and you still want to write this design off as "pure coincidence". You gotta be kidding. If they just wanted a window they would have just put in a window.

Don't scholars generally hold that these things predate the druids?

[GaryKelly]

Jeez Gary, how much do you know about these sites? Apart from that, do the maths: Point of sunrise and winter solstice combined - what are the chances? What 1000:1? 10,000:1? Couple those odds with the known significance of seasons and moon phases for the druids and you still want to write this design off as "pure coincidence". You gotta be kidding. If they just wanted a window they would have just put in a window.

Don't scholars generally hold that these things predate the druids?

You do the maths, alurker. The obliquity of earth's ecliptic is changing. 5000 years ago the sun's azimuth angle during the solstice was at least two complete solar diameters north of where it is today. Same for the moon. Illumination angles don't remain static over time. The latitude of any structure, which is also critical to setting up 'an ancient observatory' is also changing over time too. Stonehenge isn't exactly where it was when it was built any more, (although the drift is small), and neither is Newgrange.

How much do I know about these sites and about the druids? Exactly as much as anybody else, because it's all conjecture and speculation (with many thanks to the Dark Ages).

You can take any fixed structure on the earth and ascribe any number of 'astronomical alignments' to it. Old or new. Have a look at this:
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-3.html

Great Scott! The 'ancients' who built Washington D.C were incredible astronomers! And obviously in league with Lucifer and the Masons.

As for the Druids, "Asterix the Gaul" probably paints as good a picture of Druids as any of the white-clad happy-clapping dudes who descend on Stonehenge (just up the road from me here in Wiltshire). "Neo-druidism" is a modern invention. Everything 'original' about the real druids was lost millennia ago, except for archeological remains and the endless reams of speculation that goes with ancient objects.

As for Walden's original question, why do so many people seem so anxious to endow 'the ancients' with 'impossible' knowledge that has, obviously, been lost, leaving nothing but tantalizing "clues" as to their existence?

Oh the Mayans were brilliant, they've left us clues about the end of the world... the Egyptians must've been descendants of Atlanteans, for truly it's impossible to build bloody great pyramids with such astronomical precision (based on alignments which simply didn't exist at the time of their construction). And never mind all the collapsed failed attempts at pyramid building just down the road a bit.

The other great leap of imagination tied to ancient monuments is Religion. Archaeologists are always sooo quick to announce "This incredible find" (a big circle of wood or stones) "obviously held great religious significance for the people who built it. Perhaps it was here they held their ceremonies and rituals, possibly involving sacrifices." Yeah right-oh then.

It's a kind of wishful thinking, I believe. Clutching at the hope that if the 'ancients' were wonderfully civilised (and possessed great stores of vast knowledge), we might be too one day. Trouble is, if that's true, well, it didn't do the 'ancients' much good, did it? Much like Ozymandias' plinth, 'nothing beside remains'.