Scottish Smallpipes

ISU Trout Bum · Post by **ISU Trout Bum** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:14 am

Hi Everyone,

I have a few questions (most of which are probably going to appear rather silly to many of you). I'm thinking about getting a set of pipes, but don't know what kind to purchase, and I know no one who plays, so asking a "real" person is out. I play flute and whistle at a local session, and would love to add pipes. Now, here are my questions:

1) I'm thinking Scottish Smallpipes in D - would this work well for "Irish" music? I may be off base, but it seems to make sense.

2) For those who play SS - are they "easier" (I know that is totally loaded term) than UP? I've heard that the latter are really difficult, plus much more expensive than SS.

3) If SS is a good way to go - could any of you recommend makers? I know of Kilberry and Walsh and both seem very nice, especially for the money. However, I'm all ears if there are others that I should check-out.

Thanks in advance for your time. I know that these are "piker" questions, but I don't have anyone to ask, and I've read as much as I can from the web. Just wanted some feedback before I start buying books and/or pipes!

Thanks again!

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:20 am

Small pipes may limit the amount or type of Irish tunes you can play due to octave limitations. Personally, I would chose the Uilleann Pipes for that very reason alone... but then again, I'm biased in this opinion.

Bill Reeder · Post by **Bill Reeder** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:55 am

I'm with Joseph on this one. Scottish Smallpipes are not the way to go if you're interested in playing Irish tunes in sessions. You, or your session mates, won't be happy for very long. With only nine notes, you'll quickly tire of "fudging" the melody. Spend the extra cash and get a UP practice set.

PJA · Post by **PJA** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:57 am

The bellows and bag technique is the same but Irish music on the SS would be alot harder than the UP; firstly there's the limitations of it's scale which plays less than a full octave like Joseph said. There's also the issue of ornamentation; highland bagpipe ornamentation requires alot more technique than UP Ornamentation. And you being able to play flute/whistle already will find it a much easier transition to UP as the scales are the same and you could easily transpose some of the fingering and your store of tunes from what you've learnt from the whistle onto the UP.

So basically, go for UP.

uilleannfinlander · Post by **uilleannfinlander** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:58 am

Few words, stay away from Kilberry and consider A-pipes from Walsh instead of D
if u choose plastic pipes.
Sounds better, easier to play than D IMHO.

jmccain · Post by **jmccain** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:07 am

If you do decide to go the smallpipe route (despite the sage advice above regarding playing Irish music on SSPs) I'd suggest the following makers (in no particular order):

Hamish Moore, John Rutzen, EJ Jones, Ian Kinnear, Ray Sloan, Nigel Richards. They all have websites.

These all all excellent for playing Scottish music.

Best, John

Bill Reeder · Post by **Bill Reeder** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:11 am

In my experience, SSP pitched in A tend to get drowned out easily in a session situation. On the other hand, NSP pitched in concert G are easily heard and cut through everything and aren't as limited in range as SSP. Just playing the Devil's advocate here - I'd still go for the Uilleann pipes. You can get a lot of mileage out of a practice set in a session situation.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:13 am

I think I'd go UP too. I just started and am already playing aires pretty nicely. I am also playing faster dance tunes not so very nicely.

UPs are challenging but much fun. Don't be scared off.

There have been a few threads about folks trying to get along with SSPs at sessions...always unsuccessfully.

If you don't want to go UP you might consider a Northumbrian smallpipe in G or D. Seems like that would work well with Irish tunes.

Cheers,

Doc

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:22 am

If you're looking for Scottish small pipes, I've a friend who is selling a set made by Ray Sloan. They're in D. He's recorded with these pipes on at least 2 CDs.

If you're interested, PM me with your email address and I'll put you in contact with him.

ISU Trout Bum · Post by **ISU Trout Bum** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:26 am

Wow - thanks for quick responses everyone! Very helpful info.

OK, it pretty much seems unanimous that I need to go with UP. I'm fine with that (though a little nervous for some reason [maybe 'cause I'm 1/2 Scot

]). Anyway, can y'all now recommend 1/2 sets that I should look at? Here is the rub - it don't have tons of $ to spend (nor do I want to at this point, at least until I figure out if can even play them). That is why the SS were appealing. I'm all ears.

Thanks again for the helpful info!!

misterpatrick · Post by **misterpatrick** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 10:58 am

Read the FAQ on getting sets etc. Lots of makers out there. A good thing to do is keep an eye out here and on uilleannobsession.com for a used set. A good set will hold its value and if you decide that the pipes aren't for you, you can resell them without much, if any, loss. This will avoid the long wait on a makers list and then, if you decide you are a piper you can put an order in with a maker knowing you're getting what you want.

ausdag · Post by **ausdag** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:32 pm

PJA wrote:There's also the issue of ornamentation; highland bagpipe ornamentation requires alot more technique than UP Ornamentation. .

SSP aren't generally played with GHB ornamentation although you can if you want.

I'm not an SS piper (I've been slowly - 15yrs+ - learning GHB technique on a practice chanter though) but I've played a couple of sets belonging to a friend who is big on the small pipes and lowland pipes and UP. I played a set in D which I found difficult with my long Seamus Ennis fingers, and a set in A which was far more comfortable with the longer chanter.

I actually found the pressure required to maintain good tuning much more sensitive on the SSP compared to UP. It seemed to require much more concentration on the bag arm to maintain the equilibrium. With UPs it's more a case of pump the things up and squeeze and you're off - nowhere near as much moaning and groaning trying to find the pressure balance. I say this as an experienced Uilleann piper but completely novice SS piper.

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:20 pm

The Scottish Smallpipes are lovely for Highland and Lowland/Border music when tuned and played well.

But if it's Irish music you want, it's the Uilleann pipes you need. As has been suggested, check out the flood of information that can be found here.

ISU Trout Bum wrote:Anyway, can y'all now recommend 1/2 sets that I should look at?

.

Most start with a practice set and it will save you a lot of money too.

Cheers,
Aaron

Tjones · Post by **Tjones** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:34 pm

Last year I was asking the same questions and ended up getting a set of small pipes in D from Sam Couliter(his renausincePipes),with open fingering and an extra f hole. Playing the flute, I thought that this would be a good way to start into the world of piping. I love the pipes, and they're a blast to play, but find it hard to play the Irish tunes I know on the flute, with them(that Second octave thing). So I've been playing some Welsh tunes I found on the Internet written in the Key of G and D all in the first octave. Most of the SSP repitore(sp) is the same as GHP and writen in The Key of A so you have to be creative and transpose to play them, if you get a D set. If your goal is to play in sessions and mainly Irish, I'd have to go with the uilleann Pipes.

Tjones

marcpipes · Post by **marcpipes** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:42 am

Seems unanimous. There was a thread on here within the past few weeks about someone trying to sit in on a session with D smallpipes and how poorly it worked out. You truly want uilleanns for that task. The SSP's need steadier blowing as they aren't expexted to go up and down two octaves, so unsteady air pressure is more likely to make them waver in their tuning. I still like my sets, though(A, D, and B at 475). I'm going to have to make a C or C#set. I don't see too many of those.
Marc