All that glitters is not gold.
- Mitch
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Yes, when I first read that, I did ponder the total boolean exclusion - meaning that gold never glitters. = to absolute set "gold" apply absolute negation of property "glitter". Since the poem was set in the absolute context "of Aragorn" I took the line to communicate that Aragorn was keeping a low profile i.e. not glittering and being in a reduced context did not apply to anything else that might be gold and not electing to be covered in crud. . That's assuming Tolkien was the pre-eminent language stallwart he is painted to be.peeplj wrote:All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be King.
--J.R.R. Tolkien
--James.tar.gz
- scottielvr
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Your commendably relentless application of Boole to Shakespeare and now Tolkien reminds me of E.B. White's remark about humor: ...[in these cases, the poetry] "can be dissected, as a frog can, but the thing dies in the process and the innards are discouraging to any but the pure scientific mind."Mitch wrote:Yes, when I first read that, I did ponder the total boolean exclusion - meaning that gold never glitters. = to absolute set "gold" apply absolute negation of property "glitter". Since the poem was set in the absolute context "of Aragorn" I took the line to communicate that Aragorn was keeping a low profile i.e. not glittering and being in a reduced context did not apply to anything else that might be gold and not electing to be covered in crud. . That's assuming Tolkien was the pre-eminent language stallwart he is painted to be.
Cranberry wrote:So I've heard. I've never read Tolkien.Walden wrote:Wouldn't be the only time Tolkien used Christian symbolic language.
Perhaps I might I should, if only I had the time.
The amazing thing about people is that they nearly always make time to do what they want to do.
If you used 15 minutes of the time you waste here, you could get a lot of things done.
- Martin Milner
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- Martin Milner
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I feel the same whenever anyone asks "should I take up playing the fiddle or (insert excuse of choice here)?"Lambchop wrote:Cranberry wrote:So I've heard. I've never read Tolkien.Walden wrote:Wouldn't be the only time Tolkien used Christian symbolic language.
Perhaps I might I should, if only I had the time.
The amazing thing about people is that they nearly always make time to do what they want to do.
If you used 15 minutes of the time you waste here, you could get a lot of things done.
I want to say "If you have to ask the opinion of people you've who don't know you very well, opinions on whether you have sufficient motivation to put in the time and effort required to learn this tricky instrument, then you probably shouldn't." but I usually refrain.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that schwing
- peeplj
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Tolkien used most of the Big Myths in his stories, starting with Creation, when the world was created by song (nice touch, that!), the transition from a flat earth to a round one (the Elder Days vs all the Ages that came later), Atlantis (Numenor), Arthur (Aragorn), and so forth.
His writings aren't overtly Christian--C.S. Lewis took that path, and Tolkien was critical of it (and, I think, rightly so)--but Tolkien was certainly strongly Christian and there is a Christ-like figure to be found in his writings, but it's not Aragorn, it's Frodo. It is Frodo who must sacrificed (by destroying the Ring in the Fire), and who by so doing, though he survives it (which was by no means certain), loses himself so that others may have home and peace.
As to the verses about Aragorn, I think your analysis is good. Tolkien was a very precise word-smith, to a degree other authors rarely if ever attain, and he wrote exactly what he meant. "All that is gold does not glitter" means literally "There is gold that glitters, but there is also gold that doesn't." This refers to Aragorn and his appearance (the scruffy, rascally ranger) vs his reality (a King in self-imposed exile, one of the last in whom the blood of Numenor ran true).
--James
P.S. I actually spend very little time on the boards or on the Net in general. I pop in and out a few times each day, but unless something catches my eye, I spend only a few seconds on each board at any given time.
His writings aren't overtly Christian--C.S. Lewis took that path, and Tolkien was critical of it (and, I think, rightly so)--but Tolkien was certainly strongly Christian and there is a Christ-like figure to be found in his writings, but it's not Aragorn, it's Frodo. It is Frodo who must sacrificed (by destroying the Ring in the Fire), and who by so doing, though he survives it (which was by no means certain), loses himself so that others may have home and peace.
As to the verses about Aragorn, I think your analysis is good. Tolkien was a very precise word-smith, to a degree other authors rarely if ever attain, and he wrote exactly what he meant. "All that is gold does not glitter" means literally "There is gold that glitters, but there is also gold that doesn't." This refers to Aragorn and his appearance (the scruffy, rascally ranger) vs his reality (a King in self-imposed exile, one of the last in whom the blood of Numenor ran true).
--James
P.S. I actually spend very little time on the boards or on the Net in general. I pop in and out a few times each day, but unless something catches my eye, I spend only a few seconds on each board at any given time.
- SteveK
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All that is gold does not glitter seems to me to mean that everything that is gold does not glitter or no gold glitters. I could understand it better if it said not all that is gold glitters.peeplj wrote: "All that is gold does not glitter" means literally "There is gold that glitters, but there is also gold that doesn't." This refers to Aragorn and his appearance (the scruffy, rascally ranger) vs his reality (a King in self-imposed exile, one of the last in whom the blood of Numenor ran true).
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You never waste a second arguing on the Internet, do you?Lambchop wrote:Cranberry wrote:So I've heard. I've never read Tolkien.Walden wrote:Wouldn't be the only time Tolkien used Christian symbolic language.
Perhaps I might I should, if only I had the time.
The amazing thing about people is that they nearly always make time to do what they want to do.
If you used 15 minutes of the time you waste here, you could get a lot of things done.
"All does not glitter," (unlike "Nothing glitters") does not eliminate the possibility that some may glitter. It does, however, mean that there is always some that doesn't glitter.SteveK wrote:All that is gold does not glitter seems to me to mean that everything that is gold does not glitter or no gold glitters. I could understand it better if it said not all that is gold glitters.peeplj wrote: "All that is gold does not glitter" means literally "There is gold that glitters, but there is also gold that doesn't." This refers to Aragorn and his appearance (the scruffy, rascally ranger) vs his reality (a King in self-imposed exile, one of the last in whom the blood of Numenor ran true).
Giles: "We few, we happy few."
Spike: "We band of buggered."
Spike: "We band of buggered."
- Bloomfield
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