cello in trad. celtic music

TheSpoonMan · Post by **TheSpoonMan** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:50 pm

Myself, I love the idea- what I've heard of it I like a lot. Melody or baseline or whatever. I've been teaching myself cello for teh past couple weeks (well, I go into the bandroom at school once or twice a week and play there), and am thinking of buying one myself sometime (probably a cheap chinese one, but I'm not rich; Doug Tipple's article here also looks interesting: http://home.earthlink.net/~life2all/dou ... e/id3.html ). So yes. Any folk cellists here?

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:15 am

The Cello really has no warm welcome in Irish Traditional Music, but it is used in English Traditional Music. ETM includes the String Band tradition, where people just played whatever they had, cellos included.

Try to hear the recordings of Peter Cooper & Richard Bolton. Richard is a cello player (also guitar), and plays the melody lines on the cello at times. The Savage Hornpipe would be a good CD to start with.

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:54 am

The subject has recently been discussed: here

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Wed May 31, 2006 6:49 am

Another surprising place for to find a cello is the country music of Lyle Lovett. I don't know about now, but he used on a lot 10 yrs ago or so.

I've always had the sense that some things don't blend with tradtional music because they sound bad. For other things, it's just that no one thought of it.

If cellos had been ready available in Ireland (or Texas) 200 years ago, would they be trationqal instruments today?

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:09 am

dwinterfield wrote:Another surprising place for to find a cello is the country music of Lyle Lovett. I don't know about now, but he used on a lot 10 yrs ago or so.

I've always had the sense that some things don't blend with tradtional music because they sound bad. For other things, it's just that no one thought of it.

If cellos had been ready available in Ireland (or Texas) 200 years ago, would they be trationqal instruments today?

There's a cellist who shows up at one of our local sessions from time to time, and frankly, I think the cello works brilliantly with Irish Trad.

Redwolf

Martin Milner · Post by **Martin Milner** » Wed May 31, 2006 8:48 am

dwinterfield wrote:If cellos had been ready available in Ireland (or Texas) 200 years ago, would they be traditional instruments today?

Almost certainly.

When you think about it, most of the trad Irish instruments are small and relatively portable and cheap. Cellos are bulky and expensive. Pipes somehow slip in there, even though they're ultra-expensive. Boxes are pretty expensive, but haven't been around that long. Many instruments were handed down through the generations because they were so difficult to obtain.

Very few fiddles used to be made in Ireland, they were all imported because the wood just wasn't available to make them. Hence the Tin fiddle.

Who posted a picture of a tin cello (or was it a double bass) recently?

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:22 pm

The question was about Celtic music, not specifically about Irish music. It appears that the cello had some use in Scottish music.
http://www.standingstones.com/tradcllo.html

Alistair Fraser has a CD with cellist Natalie Haas. She takes a very active role, playing all kinds of stuff other than just sustained notes.

The cello has also had some limited but effective use in American old time music.

morgan · Post by **morgan** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 8:00 am

The most interesting non-classical cello I have heard is from Rushad Eggleston, who plays with a variety of groups. You can hear some nice cello work on the web site of Crooked Still, which is a new-grass-ish group:

www.crookedstill.com

BrassBlower · Post by **BrassBlower** » Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:00 pm

La Lugh.

CelloDog · Post by **CelloDog** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:27 am

I've been playing cello for a few years now. Started as an adult -- hardest thing I've ever done (I had played a lot of guitar and a little mandolin and whistle, and violin a bit as a kid). It's the first instrument I'd ever studied -- lessons, reading the dots etc. It requires A LOT of practice time.

Cello is a very versatile instrument and has a place in almost every style of music I can think of. It sounds great in traditional music. Historically it was used in Scottish music, but rarely in Irish. Barry Phillips has recorded some great CDs of Irish, Scottish and Scandanavian tunes (available at www.gourd.com). Abby Newton did a nice CD of Scottish and Irish tunes and published a song book (Crossing to Scotland). She did them all in the original fiddle keys so she never once plays the C string.

And this is the real problem with playing fiddle tunes on cello: the fiddle is tuned GDAE and the cello is tuned CGDA. So in playing tunes in D (and sometimes G) a cellist either has to play into the higher positions, or drop the tune down another octave. Playing in higher positions is commonplace in baroque and classical music but not idiomatic for most fiddle music (that open string sound). It's also technically challenging for a beginner (but great practice).

I think the best solution is to transpose the key down a fifth (D tunes in G, G tunes in C). This works well except when you are playing with other muscicians who know the tune in the "right" key. Though if you're playing with a group you may want the cello to take the bass line rather than melody lead. Also, the fiddle is a more agile instrument than the cello so ornamentation and bowing need to be changed. I recently started playing the low whistle and have gained some insights into adapting music for the lower larger instruments.

Another solution would be to play a 5 string cello (CGDAE) or refit a cello with different strings and tune it GDAE and play in original fiddle keys. It might also be nice to try it with an alternate tuning (DADA, DGDG ? )

I any case it is fun to experiment, integrate old & new.

Doug

Just ordered the Fraser/Haas CD, and would love to hear about other traditional music that uses a cello.

SteveK · Post by **SteveK** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:21 am

There's some cello work on a CD called Sweet Nell. The music is old time style but the compositions are all original. The cello, played my Michael James Kott, plays mainly bowed bass/drone style. I like it and think it really adds a lot to the CD.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/adlerco

A cellist by the name of Renata Bratt has a recording. I don't own it but you can listen to samples at CD Baby. It's some old time, some other stuff.

http://cdbaby.com/cd/renatabratt

crookedtune · Post by **crookedtune** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:22 pm

There are many instances of cello showing up in American folk music, although I wouldn't go as far as calling it a traditional instrument. Some of the earliest recorded stringbands used them (along with whatever else was at hand). More recently, you can hear a lot of it in the recordings of Norman and Nancy Blake. Also, Yo Yo Ma has done some dabbling in folk music, notably with fiddler Mark O'Connor. Not my cup of tea, particularly, but there it is....

TheSpoonMan · Post by **TheSpoonMan** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:21 pm

Awesome! Thanks y'all!

Domhnall · Post by **Domhnall** » Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:59 pm

I've been arranging cello recently in a bunch of different styles. I rearely give the cello the melody, but that is because I cover that on mandolin. I ocassionaly give the cello a lower harmony part, but mostly its the bass line for my poor cellist. cello is a wonderful sounding instrument, I really can't imagine it sounding bad in any musical setting.