Use the "thhh"

Swedish-Banjo · Post by **Swedish-Banjo** » Thu May 25, 2006 5:15 am

I was jut in the middle of playing the Kesh today, when a thought suddenly crossed my mind:
How often are you suppose to execute notes with a "thhh" ?
This is the first jig I'm learning, and I have managed to get the speed up pretty much, and the ornaments are sounding good to.
I figured that when you are playing a song fast, with a lot of fast notes after each other, you don't have much time to execute notes with a "thhh".

When do you guys think it is important to execute notes with a "thhh"? I have noticed that ornaments can sound a little bit different when executing them with a "thhh", but in the middle of a roll of notes it feels strange and awkward to use "thhh".

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:36 am

What's a "thhh"?

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:41 am

Are you talking about tonguing?
If so, I usually call that more of a "tuh" than a "thhh"...

dwinterfield · Post by **dwinterfield** » Thu May 25, 2006 6:58 am

As I learned it, the basic tongueing technique for jigs is to think of each group of three notes and to tongue the first and third and slur (or not tongue) the second. When I learned this, I tended to play every group of three notes exactly the same. This isn't really a good idea, but it helped me learn the pattern. Now I'm breaking away from the pattern to emphasize different parts of the tune.

A related issue I've just encountered comes from spending time with two whistle teachers. Teacher #1 (and many tutors) say that the basic mouth articulation for the whistle is tongueing, or the tuh or thh action. Teacher #2 says tongueing, or the tuh or thh action is a flute thing and that for the whistle it is better to do all those mouth articualtions from further back in the throat with a chh or ckk type action. Teachers 1 & 2 are friends, but don't agree on this.

Swedish-Banjo · Post by **Swedish-Banjo** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:30 am

Yes, tounging is what I meant.

So you mean you are suppose to play every second note with a "tuh"?
1tuh 2 3tuh 4 5tuh 6 7tuh 8

That sounds like a lot of tounging to me!

I tried this, and it really slows me down.! It sounds weird. The ornaments gets harder to master this way.
Is this really how to do it?

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:33 am

The usual advice is to start with no tonguing. Then, you can add
the tonguing back in when you've gotten the ornaments and fingering
down pat. Even then, you probably should only use it sparingly in ITM.

Swedish-Banjo · Post by **Swedish-Banjo** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:39 am

But should you aim at tounging every second note? What does ITM mean?

CRC · Post by **CRC** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:50 am

http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/b ... guing.html

CRC · Post by **CRC** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:50 am

Oops, also a double post!

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:50 am

Swedish-Banjo wrote:But should you aim at tounging every second note? What does ITM mean?

ITM Irish traditional music

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:53 am

Swedish-Banjo wrote:But should you aim at tounging every second note? What does ITM mean?

No, you should aim at whatever tonguing is appropriate. Tonguing
every second note of every jig would be boring. Tonguing is just
another ornament, really.

Jon-M · Post by **Jon-M** » Thu May 25, 2006 8:59 am

As far as I can make out, there is no single answer to this question. If you look at one old thread on this board, a person who had taken a class with her said that Mary Bergin suggested tonguing the second (cut) note in a roll to give the roll more definition and punch. Grey Larsen has a fair amount to say about tonguing in his book too. It would seem to me that you can experiment and find what you like for a particular tune. You might want to vary usage within a tune as well for different effects and emphases.

Screeeech!!! · Post by **Screeeech!!!** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:56 pm

The only place i use tonguing in The Kesh is between the double D's in the first part and after taking a breath. I suppose some might cut the second D's instead of tonguing it, but i cut the E and G's between the D's and therefore find it to be ornamentation over-kill to cut the D's as well.

Other wise it's legarto all the way for me.

It's a great tune though, and i enjoy playing it everyday. Excellent for working on the A and B rolls.

Screeeech!!! · Post by **Screeeech!!!** » Thu May 25, 2006 12:59 pm

Double post, naughty computer.

fearfaoin · Post by **fearfaoin** » Thu May 25, 2006 4:33 pm

I concur. Sometimes, when I get tired of playing the G and A rolls,
I'll cut and then tongue those as a variation

(i.e., G2<cut>G <tongue>GAB A2<cut>A <tongue>ABc...)