new kind of whistle?

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:52 pm

Today I attended the Scottish Games in Pleasonton. As I stood in a beer line, I heard beautiful whistle music coming from around the corner. Whoever was playing was very, very good, and the whistle was obviously miked. Finally I couldn't stand it any more and I left the beer line to go listen. It was a "celtic" band called Craicmore, out of LA. I was intrigued because the whistle being played not only sounded incredible, but it was a beautiful shade of blue. My mind immediately went to the new whistles I've been reading about here, the Elfsongs and the Serpents, and I remembered how pretty they looked, and I thought that if they sounded this good, I'd just HAVE to get one. When the band took a break, I went up to talk to the whistler. His fantastic whistle was a Sweetone D which he bought for $10. It was an education for me.

Isilwen · Post by **Isilwen** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:19 pm

Pywacket · Post by **Pywacket** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:37 pm

I have read many posts here about the playability, or which pennywhistle sounds better than others, etc. I have always felt that the bottom line on how well you can make the whistle sound/play is really up to your ability. How much you practice with it, etc. I liken it to my ability as a professional photographer. It is not the camera that I use, but the expertise with which I use that camera. It is not the paint the artist uses, but their ability to apply that paint to the canvas.

I have several pennywhistles and flutes from several makers. I love each and everyone of them for different reasons. I use different whistles/flutes for different songs because I like the particular sound of a particular whistle/flute for a particular song. The most expensive pennywhistle I own is a Ralph Sweet and the least expensive is a Meg. I just can't get myself to purchase a high end whistle, because if I can't make my Meg sound good, how will I make an expensive whistle sound good. I know that the high end whistles are great, but if I can't play a decent tune with a low end, owning a high end won't make any difference. It has to come down to my ability, not the whistle's.

Craig

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:51 pm

On 2002-08-31 21:37, Pywacket wrote:
I have read many posts here about the playability, or which pennywhistle sounds better than others, etc. I have always felt that the bottom line on how well you can make the whistle sound/play is really up to your ability. How much you practice with it, etc. I liken it to my ability as a professional photographer. It is not the camera that I use, but the expertise with which I use that camera. It is not the paint the artist uses, but their ability to apply that paint to the canvas.

I have several pennywhistles and flutes from several makers. I love each and everyone of them for different reasons. I use different whistles/flutes for different songs because I like the particular sound of a particular whistle/flute for a particular song. The most expensive pennywhistle I own is a Ralph Sweet and the least expensive is a Meg. I just can't get myself to purchase a high end whistle, because if I can't make my Meg sound good, how will I make an expensive whistle sound good. I know that the high end whistles are great, but if I can't play a decent tune with a low end, owning a high end won't make any difference. It has to come down to my ability, not the whistle's.

Craig

Agreed, Craig. That's why I don't have WHOA.

lawhistle · Post by **lawhistle** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:34 pm

Hi, thought I'd add that Pat Collins, Craicmore's whistle player leads our session at the Celtic Arts center often. Great player and a heck of a nice guy. He's had that Sweetone for as long as I've known him. Of course each whistle is variable, and it's got the best tone of any Sweetone I've heard. I think he tried a Waterweasel for awhile, but it wasn't a few weeks before it disappeared and his old standard was back. lol

MurphyStout · Post by **MurphyStout** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:35 pm

Hey Blackhawk,
I knew I should have gone over today, but I'm going to go tommorow, hopefully they'll still be there. But I'd be interested in hearing someone play a sweetone well, cause when I play it I loathe the sound. Is there anything else out there worth checking out?

E = Fb · Post by **E = Fb** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:49 pm

I once added a new (tweaked) fipple to a Generation whistle and ended up with a very good sound, but I've never heard a Sweetone that was anywhere close to good. Someone out there appears to have found a good one. Great! That's a treasure.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:11 pm

On 2002-08-31 23:35, MurphyStout wrote:
Hey Blackhawk,
I knew I should have gone over today, but I'm going to go tommorow, hopefully they'll still be there. But I'd be interested in hearing someone play a sweetone well, cause when I play it I loathe the sound. Is there anything else out there worth checking out?

Hey Jack, good to see you posting. As to what else to check in the way of music, there's nobody else with whistles, but if you like fiddle, check out Tempest. But definitely check out that whistler.

As to Sweetones, I have had four, all good. I think partly it's personal taste, and partly just how well a person plays.

Hey Jack, check out that thread on the Lunasa concert. Wanna join me there? Maybe we can talk Weekenders into joining us.

peeplj · Post by **peeplj** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:24 pm

I have two Sweetones and a Meg.

One Sweetone is really really good, one is pretty good, and the Meg is, I think, the nicest whistles of the three.

I would guess that, like Generations and other mass-produced whistles, they vary widely. (Well, maybe not quite so widely as Generations do, but you take my point, I'm sure.)

Best,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

John Allison · Post by **John Allison** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 11:07 pm

I've had the opportunity to see Craicmore several times over the past two years around LA and San Diego and I think I know what Pat Collins' secret is!! He buys blue Sweetones by the case, keeps the best ones for himself, and sells the rest at a tidy profit at the fairs. Wish I could do that with Overtons...

Sandy Jasper · Post by **Sandy Jasper** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:25 am

Blackhawk

I love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!

A few thoughts of mine on the high end, low end debate! I was always a generation whistle fan. I thought they could do no wrong. Then I started building my own and a whole new world of expression opened up for me. Now I still use the odd generation for a fast song, especially when my whistles aren't with me but for slow, beautiful songs, they do them no justice. The difference really came home to me one night when a whistle class I was teaching all decided to order whistles. The next week I gave them all their whistles save one person. When they started to play the difference totally blew me away. Instead of the squeaky sound I was used to from them, (they had been playing for only 4 weeks) suddenly my ears didn't hurt and we all looked at one another. That was when I became convinced.

Another quick reference. I play sax and flute. One day 8 years ago,I was at a friends place and picked up her sax. I played the thing like you wouldn't believe, I was AMAZING!!! All the struggles I was having was the fault of my instrument, not me. I almost quit the flute for the same reason. I took my sax in, paid $150.00 to get it fixed up and joined my first R&B band.

Too many times students come to me with problems that are fixed by replacing the instrument, this happens with whistles, flutes, guitars you name it. Too often we think that because we are just learning an instrument, we don't need a good one. Too often people think they have no talent and give up because of a fault in the instrument. You have the same limitations as your instrument! That doesn't mean you have to pay gazilions for a good one, but when in doubt, have a professional play your instrument, if they can make it sing with relative ease, then keep practicing, if not, perhaps it is time for a new one or to get yours fixed!

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:09 am

On 2002-09-01 02:25, Sandy Jasper wrote:
Blackhawk

I love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!

I like that, Sandy, "the magic and soul of the music"...that IS the essence of why we play!

I don't disagree with the rest of your post, either, Sandy. I own a Burke, 2 Sindts, etc, as well as Sweetones, Gens, Clares, and Feadogs. I enjoy collecting whistles as well as playing them. The thing that really hit home to me today was what is possible on an average whistle when it's well played. It was an inspiration to me. I don't hang around with other whistlers, so I tend to forget just how great they can sound when I'm not the one doing the playing.

It reminded me of the oft told story about the auction of the old fiddle. The auctioneer couldn't even get an opening bid because the fiddle was so old and scratched up. Finally an old man got up and walked to the front, picked it up and began playing beautifully. When he was done the bidding was fierce, and the thing that made difference was the touch of the master.

mike.r · Post by **mike.r** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:41 am

On 2002-09-01 02:25, Sandy Jasper wrote:
Blackhawk

I love your posting. Much good wisdom there. No matter how good your whistle is, you yourself provide the magic and soul of the music!

A few thoughts of mine on the high end, low end debate! I was always a generation whistle fan. I thought they could do no wrong. Then I started building my own and a whole new world of expression opened up for me. Now I still use the odd generation for a fast song, especially when my whistles aren't with me but for slow, beautiful songs, they do them no justice. The difference really came home to me one night when a whistle class I was teaching all decided to order whistles. The next week I.....

Some folks here may think it bad form for a whistle producer to deride another producer in order to promote their own product.Generations do justice to just about anything in my opinion,even slow airs. peace,Mike

Tradman · Post by **Tradman** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:19 am

Well, I do have to say one thing though. I have played guitar for over 11 years now up to the semi-professional level (if not the prof. level) and although YES, the player is the ultimate person to make an instrument sound good, the instrument goes a long way in helping the musician to play good too. I have given many a guitar lesson to people of all ages, and one thing people always want to say is, "Well, I think were going to get little Johnny a inexpensive instrument first, and then if he likes it, sticks to it, and gets decent we will put more money into his instrument."
The problem is, is that unless you have much Irish luck poured upon you, it is very unlikely that a cheap guitar will promote and encourage playing and skill in a new player.

Now true, whistle ARE differnt-much simpler and easier to learn to play BUT you know as well as I do the likelyhood of picking up a handfull of "cheap" whistles (which I still love to buy!) and having only one in the whole bunch play without squeaking or bleeding. Now, pick up a handful of high-end whistles- I bet you my Chieftain Low F that everyone in the handful of the high-end whistles will sound better even as a begginer plays it!

Just a thought!

_________________
Eric T
Jacksonville FL USA

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tradman on 2002-09-01 09:22 ]</font>

snoogie · Post by **snoogie** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:38 am

Sandy, I've had a similar experience. When I first started trying to play Whistle, we bought a Waltons Brass D at a Feis my daughter was dancing in.

After a couple of months, I still had a difficult time hitting certain notes without a horrible squeak. I then ordered a Sweetone, Feadog, and Walton's Little Black. (all in D)

My daughter tried the Sweetone for a while, and then lost interest. I tried it and found it more difficult to play than any of the others.

The Waltons LB was the easiest to play and had the fewest squeaks. However, my son claimed it and wouldn't let anyone else play 'his whistle.' Something about sharing saliva with his dad and sister bothered him.

I switched to the Feadog, and after the blue tack tweak, it sounded better but still had issues on C.

Then at St. Patrick's day, one of the other Dads from my daughters Irish Dance school played a couple of tunes on a Susato. I bought a set of the D, Eb, and C. It is the easiest to play of any whistle I have tried. While some of the notes do sound a bit 'recorderish', it has a much better sound than any of the others (to my ear).

Before getting the Susato, I was beginning to wonder if I could ever learn to play without squeaking. Now that is no longer a concern as I have since gone back and tried to play the other whistles again with better success.

My conclusion is that some makes of whistles are more forgiving than others. As a beginner, the more forgiving the instrument the better off you are as you master the basics (fingering, force of the air stream, etc.)

Once you have that down, then you are more aware of little nuances of air stream force and direction that you didn't notice before. Therefore you are better able to hit the note 'dead on' for that particular instrument.

As with most things, you get what you pay for. A more expensive instrument (generally) is going to play better.

However, when our piano tuner comes over, he can make our cheap estate auction piano sound fantastic!!
-gary

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