Chromatic 10 hole whistle

Kelhorn Mike · Post by **Kelhorn Mike** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:43 pm

Hey Loren,
Why don't you just quote me instead
of putting words in my mouth. Unbelieveable....
I guess you're a mind reader.

Mike

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:50 pm

On 2002-08-28 16:43, Kelhorn Mike wrote:
Hey Loren,
Why don't you just quote me instead
of putting words in my mouth. Unbelieveable....
I guess you're a mind reader.

Mike

Yeah, he's been reading my mind, too. :roll:

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 2:53 pm

On 2002-08-28 16:43, Kelhorn Mike wrote:
Hey Loren,
Why don't you just quote me instead
of putting words in my mouth. Unbelieveable....
I guess you're a mind reader.

Mike

You've already been quoted on that stuff, no need for me to waste the time doing it again. I'm not putting words in your mouth, anyone who's read this thread and "Get Real" have heard you express your feelings, I'm certainly not doing any mind reading.

Loren

Kelhorn Mike · Post by **Kelhorn Mike** » Wed Aug 28, 2002 7:29 pm

Colin,
My apologies, it appears I made presumptions
about your work. I have nothing but admiration and respect for your work and integrity. It was honest curiosity on my part but if it appeared otherwise I am sincerely regretful. Nevertheless, your post settled that curiosity and it's good to hear you are doing well.
My best to Brigitte and best wishes for a
quick recovery from the floods to all
Germans and Europeans affected.
To everyone else, it seems a lot of what
I say upsets and offends a segment of this
board and I freely admit my manner can seem
abrasive and arrogant. I'm trying to contribute from the unique perspective
that I'm lucky to have due to the position
I'm in. I don't intend to be misunderstood
but it seems that happens to a great
extent. I'll take a leave of absence
(I'm sure some will be overjoyed at
this) from the board and rethink my
involvement. To all our customers on
the board I extend a simple thanks.

Kelhorn Mike

Redwolf · Post by **Redwolf** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:09 am

[quote]

More food for thought. The general listening
public can't tell the difference between
a recorder and a whistle (whether or not it's a Susato or similar "recorder like" whistle). You take any cylindrical or slighty tapered bore whistle out on the market today with no tone holes made and you drill 8 tone holes in right places and you have a recorder.

[endquote]

Hmmm...my nine-year-old must have an unusually gifted ear then. Just to test my theory, yesterday I had her sit where she couldn't see me while I played the same simple tune on various instruments, including plastic and wooden recorders, my Susato Dublin and a couple of my metal whistles (I threw in whistles in various keys, so the difference in key between the C recorders and the D whistles wouldn't be a factor). She was easily able to pick out the recorders every time. I asked her how she could tell when I was playing a whistle and when I was playing a recorder and she answered (and I quote) "Duh Mom! They sound, like, totally different!" (yes, she's going through a Valley Girl phase!).

Don't sell the "listening public" short. Most people can tell the difference between various wind instruments, even if they don't know what to call them. I once heard a friend comment on the unusual but attractive sound of "that recorder-or-flute thing" on the Titanic recording. When I explained that the instrument in question was not a recorder or a flute, but a low whistle, he said "Ah...that's why it sounded different!" This gentleman was far from a musical "expert," but he knew that that instrument he was hearing sounded different from a recorder or a keyed flute.

Redwolf

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 10:13 am

On 2002-08-29 12:09, Redwolf wrote:

Don't sell the "listening public" short.

Like, amen.

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:30 am

Most people can tell the difference between various wind instruments, even if they don't know what to call them

Could well be true. On the other hand, wasn't there a recent thread about the final "low whistle" theme of the Lord of the Rings movie, where it turned out that no low whistle was used at all (can't remember whether concert flute or recorder was the culprit)?

Jens

vaporlock · Post by **vaporlock** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 2:35 am

On 2002-08-29 12:13, Bloomfield wrote:
On 2002-08-29 12:09, Redwolf wrote:

Don't sell the "listening public" short.
Like, amen.

Totally, dude.

Daniel_Bingamon · Post by **Daniel_Bingamon** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:42 pm

On 2002-08-28 15:41, Goldie wrote:
While we were at Tonder last weekend another instrument maker who designs custom made accordions said this to me: "The players come to me and tell me their dreams about their instrument. I listen, think and tell them what is possible in reality and then make it." I second that.
Colin

I third it! Horray!

I built a 11 key as well but I wasn't happy with fingering. When I built the Low-D chromatic, I made the fingering just like a ordinary Low-D except the various keys play the additional notes.

energy · Post by **energy** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 6:52 pm

Gotta say, this topic has got me really annoyed with certain board members. Normally I stay off discissions with a lot of flame, but not this time..

Loren, how come every time Bloomfield makes any kind of reference to one of your posts(no matter how civil or indirect) you you start throwing insults? Even when the comments are negative, they sound like friendly 'How are yous' compared to the remarks you hand out. Like, shut up for once, okay?

And beyond that, Mike's so-called "trolling" posts are far less obnoctious then your idiotic taunts. For one thing, Mike actually has something to say.

And for another thing, Susatos DON'T sound like recorders. I bet you hardly know what a recorder sounds like yourself.

Nate
_________________
"Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact."
-George Eliott

[ This Message was edited by: energy on 2002-08-31 21:21 ]

sturob · Post by **sturob** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 11:09 am

Hmm.

Well, gosh golly. I guess this thing has been discussed nearly to death, but there may be some life left in the ol' horse so I'll beat it once again.

Vis-a-vis recorders and whistles. Hmm. I've got both right here. Sort of a weird analog for the difference between the Boehm and simple-system flutes, IMHO. Handmade recorders are usually very smooth-sounding instruments. Some chiff, but not a lot. They've usually got a good chromatic range, but the fingering doesn't lend itself to gracing. Tone tends to be less breathy than with a whistle. Handmade instruments are usually made to be very even throughout their ranges, and (interestingly) a lot of very expensive recorders are not tunable. I think they recognize better than we do that the tonehole spacing should, strictly speaking, vary with the tuning length even with small changes to the tuning slide.

Whistles tend to be, well, chiffier. Fingering lends itself to gracing but you've lost nearly all the accidentals. Handmade whistles tend to try to be more accurate tone-wise and more even than mass-production models . . .

I wonder what I'm trying to say. I guess that I think a whistle is a whistle, it's got a non-chromatic 2ish-octave range, and that's that. You want to play in A, get an A whistle, etc. Recorders are more chromatic, but seriously: even with keyed simple-system flutes, it's rather unwieldy to play in, say, E-flat, even though you could. If you want to play Irish music on a recorder, you sure can. There's an instrument called a "voice flute" that's in what we'd call low D, or you could play in D on an instrument pitched in C and start with the baseline XXX XXXO (so six fingers down would be D).

I guess I second the opinion that if you want a chromatic instrument, you should probably play recorder rather than whistle. Do people really think Joanie Madden, for example, sounds like a regular traditional player? She's a virtuoso, sure, but that instrument doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like an orchestral flute, which it is. I guess I'm used to the inherent weirdness of the simple-system instrument, so it sounds like another instrument to me.

You can play the Irish style on anything, I think, but it's a lot easier on simple-system flute/whistle than it is on recorder or Boehm flute. The style is kind of married to the instrument in this case, in my opinion. But other than not wanting to learn new fingering, why would you want a chromatic whistle? What are you going to play?

Stuart

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Tue Sep 03, 2002 10:25 pm

On 2002-08-31 20:52, energy wrote:
Gotta say, this topic has got me really annoyed with certain board members. Normally I stay off discissions with a lot of flame, but not this time..

Loren, how come every time Bloomfield makes any kind of reference to one of your posts(no matter how civil or indirect) you you start throwing insults? Even when the comments are negative, they sound like friendly 'How are yous' compared to the remarks you hand out. Like, shut up for once, okay?

And beyond that, Mike's so-called "trolling" posts are far less obnoctious then your idiotic taunts. For one thing, Mike actually has something to say.

And for another thing, Susatos DON'T sound like recorders. I bet you hardly know what a recorder sounds like yourself.

Nate
_________________
"Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact."
-George Eliott

Hey, energy, thanks.

I look like I need help, right? LOL.

serpent · Post by **serpent** » Thu Sep 05, 2002 7:31 am

This is one very, very educational discussion, flames and trolls aside. Colin, I am learning a great deal from you! I hadn't really considered doing "custom" whistles, but now certainly will! Do you use the flute formulas for calculating hole diameter and placement? Or percentages?

I use commercial Type L rigid tubing for my copper instruments, and find some tuning differences (usually on the order of a couple millimetres or so) even with such uniform material. Have you noticed anything like that with yours?

Anyhow, thanks to all of you posters for the education on chromatic whistles, and to Dale for starting the battles!

Cheers,
Bill "Serpent" Whedon
Serpent Music
http://www.serpentmusic.com

MandoPaul · Post by **MandoPaul** » Fri Oct 18, 2002 8:43 pm

Sorry to dredge this thread back up but I'm curious if the 10 hole whistle fingering is the same as the 10 hole fife fingering (like the Healy 10 hole fife).

There are some things for which a chromatic whistle would be handy and I'm at the stage in life where learning yet another set of fingerings (after whistle, native american flute, boehm flute, recorder, fife) is enough to make what's left of my brain scream.

[ This Message was edited by: MandoPaul on 2002-10-18 22:44 ]

jim_mc · Post by **jim_mc** » Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:10 am

The Healy fife is made to play through 3 octaves, and the whistle would only play through 2 octaves. I imagine the fingering would be similar in those 2 octaves, depending on who made the whistle and what they were trying to achieve.