out of tune - should I bother?

[Trip-]

hey all...
I recently got a tuner and tested all my whistles.
my susato low D was impressively in tune - with that much force of blow that I usualy use. Even went sharp...
the Chieftain D though was a bit of a flatter. on the higher octave it was a very flat one - higher B was almost impossible to reach with a very hard blow which put all the air out of my lungs.

So I guessed, allright - it's out of tune... it's a bit flat here a bit more flat there - the question is, should I really bother? Sometimes that out of tune thing gives a little edge and a certain instrument trademark.
Let alone the option of playing a double whistle session, when both whistles slightly tuned differently really helps the ears get them both.

are your whistles all in tune?

Philip.

[Dee Whistler]

I think most of my whistles are a bit out of tune, but of course you can affect this with your blowing also. I think it gives certain character if instruments in trad. music are a bit out of tune, but there is a thin red line when it is nice and when it is irritating.

[brewerpaul]

Bottom line is if it's offensive. Lots of people can't even hear it if a whistle is a tad out of tune, and if it sounds OK playing with other instruments I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I don't want to speak for another whistlemaker, but if it's really out of whack, you might want to contact Phil and ask his advice.

[tansy]

Speaking as though it were a D instument, all I ever check with a tuner are the high and low D's and the first octave A, then everything else by Ear, often all by ear on these three notes and comparing all else to them.

[tim-hart]

Um, yeah. Tune it.

[Cynth]

I'd think you'd just want to get them so they sound in tune to your ear when you are playing them. I play my whistle along with a tape. It sounds in tune to me---so I would hope I'm right. I don't think at this point being out of tune would really be seen as adding character to my playing .

I didn't really know that two people playing the whistle together would tune them slightly differently. I mean wouldn't this sound like two violins in an orchestra not quite playing together right? A CD I have called "Kitty Lie Over" has at least two whistle duets I believe. I feel I would have noticed a slight difference in tuning although my ear may not be very good. Sometimes the two whistles are more separate than other times because one person might do something a little different, a little different emphasis, etc., but there is not a feeling of a slight difference in tuning I don't think. If someone who knows something is familiar with this CD I sure wish they would comment on this.

[Fingers]

So I guessed, allright - it's out of tune... it's a bit flat here a bit more flat there. Philip.

Your right at home!! NO TWO WHISTLES ARE THE SAME. Most whistles are manufacteured to BE in tune but the reality is that everyone plays them differently.
We all breath air at different pressures when we play different notes. Some people can blow the notes sharp on one whistle and blow them perfectly in tune on another. It's all about pressure!!!

YOU might play a whistle and sound in tune. I might lift the same whistle and some notes may sound slightly out of tune depending on much air I push into the whistle until I get used to it. ( ie. emphasising different phrasing).

We find our own way to get the best out of them. Whistles are personal!!

[Dave Parkhurst]

The bottom line is: how does it sound? If I tried to make my whistles exactly match a tuner, I'd never get one out the door. However, if you aren't satisfied with the sound when playing with others, then send it back to the maker with a detailed letter saying what's wrong. Most better makers will try to make things right, and flat upper octave notes are easy to remedy by enlarging the hole size eliptically away from the top of the hole. However, if it's a Cotter flute, please send it to me and I will keep it and sympathize with you...heh heh heh.
Dave

[William T. Anderson]

So I guessed, allright - it's out of tune... it's a bit flat here a bit more flat there. Philip.

Your right at home!! NO TWO WHISTLES ARE THE SAME. Most whistles are manufacteured to BE in tune but the reality is that everyone plays them differently.
We all breath air at different pressures when we play different notes. Some people can blow the notes sharp on one whistle and blow them perfectly in tune on another. It's all about pressure!!!

YOU might play a whistle and sound in tune. I might lift the same whistle and some notes may sound slightly out of tune depending on much air I push into the whistle until I get used to it. ( ie. emphasising different phrasing).

We find our own way to get the best out of them. Whistles are personal!!

When your paid to lay tracks in a studio or playing for "musicians" or wanting to be all you can be, having an instrument that isn't in tune is just unexceptable and with no excuse. I agree that every whistle/instrument is unique but unless the player and that piece become one it is all for not. At the end of the day, playing in tune is not a request it is a must...

WTA

[CelloDog]

There's in tune and then there's equal temperament.
Fixed pitch instruments (eg. piano) are tuned to an "Equal Temperament" scale. Which means every note is slightly out of tune to compensate for the dreaded "Pythagorean Comma" (I'm not making this up). Those of us who play instruments of variable pitch (violin, cello, trombone) have the ability to play in tune to a number of different temperament schemes.
With freedom comes responsibility.
Most instruments fall somewhere in between -- pitch can be tweaked by the player. This can get very interesting. Part of the idiom of whistle music involves sliding into perfect notes and sliding between them (and all those ornaments).
I've found practicing with a drone (a CD of a perfect fifth plus an octave) really helps improve intonation. Keeps you honest. Also very good for learning modal improvisation.
Playing triads is also very good for developing intonation.
A well-trained ear is more useful than an electronic tuner.

[Mitch]

Spot-on Cello dog.

I have tried very few whistles that cannot hit the desired note. Mostly they'll be in the bell-note or the upper bits of the 2nd octave. Often the Cnat will need more x-fingers on the pipe to pull it down for playing G major, other times that sharpish Cnat seems to be the right note.

It's a great experiment to get a tuner that shows actual frequency and find a chart showing the true frequencies of the scale - then see if you can hit those notes on yr whistle. It's also a damn good training exercise!

[Fretless]

I'm a fiddle player, and it's very tiring to play with others -- regardless of the instrument -- who aren't in tune. What happens is, I hear some dissonance, and I immediately try to adjust my own instrument. I might sharpen the note a tiny bit, or flatten it. It's particularly noticeable on high notes. I sometimes play with a person whose instrument tends to go out of tune, and so I'll be adjusting for the entire session.


I've noticed that good players know how to get their instruments in tune pretty easily. I play with a flute player who simply adjusts his instrument when he starts playing. He's aware that the flute will change once it warms up, and he allows for that.

So if you can get the whistle as in tune as possible, then it should be OK. But keep your eyes open on the high B notes...

Jim

[Thomas-Hastay]

Flat pitch in the upper registers is usually caused by deep toneholes and/or oversized bore diameter.( apparrent cubic volume is increased when pressure pushes up into the deep toneholes causing flat pitch.)

Using putty/wax etc. to reduce the bore end hole will "firm-up/raise pitch" in the upper registers a little. this will slightly lower the pedal keynote, but a little more breath pressure in the 1st register will hardly be noticed.

Thomas Hastay

[Trip-]

putty/wax at the end of the whistle? This could need a little more explanation - since I never worked with wax - let's say that.

But thanks for the tip anyhow