The Chieftains :-?

[straycat82]

I think, for the modern lineup, anyway, it's one of those cases where the band somehow adds up to less than the sum of the individual players. I'd rather hear a Matt Molloy concert, or a Paddy Moloney concert. Though neither would be terribly high on my list solo, either -- I respect them, but they're not quite my thing.

(Patrick Street is another band like that. I'd soooo much rather see John Carty or Kevin Burke solo.)

With earlier Chieftains, I enjoy it, but there's lots of other music from roughly the same time period I listen to a lot more -- Music from the Coleman Country, Cooley, etc.

I'm quite fond of Patrick Street as well.

[AaronMalcomb]

Let's say you go to a bar and try a classic martini with gin. It's pretty good so you next time you go to this bar you try another one with vodka (shaken) and it's pretty good too. You start branching out and trying other classic mixed drinks as well as trying them at different bars. You become a bit of a connoisseur and dabble a bit at home, learning to make your own drinks (in moderation and avoiding alcoholism), but it's just not the same.

So one night you go back to that first bar and you notice there are some new employees. But the drinks are still good so there's no bother. But the feeling's not quite the same so you spend more time dabbling at home or going to other bars. After awhile you have found a few bars that make the drinks better than the first and you become better at making them at home and even host the odd party and show off your skills.

Now that first bar was pretty popular (that's why you tried it initially) and it starts becoming even more popular with famous people sometimes there. You decide to go back one night. You go in and they've done some redecorating; there are some neon lights where there were none before. The famous people seem to be more of the focus of attention than the bar staff and their services and there are a few more unfamiliar faces working there. You order a martini and they tell you about the special of the night which has all kinds of fruit juices and other liqueurs in it. You try it and it's not bad but it's not what you want. So you order a classic martini and they bring it out and it's not as good as the first one you remember and not anywhere near as good as some you've had at other bars and you would even prefer the taste of one you made yourself.

So you stop going there even though you know that some of the staff are really good at what they do and you went to a banquet once where one of the staff was tending bar and made you one of the best drinks you've had. When people ask you if that bar is a good place for a drink you say it's OK but...

That's my allegory for why trad music lovers and players lose interest with The Chieftains. Thanks for indulging.

[Unseen122]

Very well put Aaron. Their earlier stuff is OK, but I'd rather listen to newer bands with a different style of non trad music. What I mean is I would rather listen to Flook or Lunasa than early Cheiftains. Both of which are in ways non trad.

[Key_of_D]

I guess this is something I need cleared up with me... What is traditional Irish music? I was under the impression, the Chieftains, were (for the most part, obviously with exception of some albums) playing traditional music, but, in a non-traditional way. As in, traditional tunes, just not traditionally, so to speak. Mixed up, like how they would start off with a reel, then an air, then to a jig, then some more reels or whatever.

I mean, if the Chieftains aren't playing traditional Irish tunes, then, what the hell have I been playing on my whistle these past 2 years?

Maybe I'm missing, or have missed something here, or I just don't know the real definition of traditional Irish music...

But, I'm young and learning so, educate me.



As for the Chieftains in my book, I'd say the fact I have 20 of their cd's and possibly more in the future, might just describe enough how much I enjoy them. =)

[Dee Whistler]

Actually voted "yes" even though I don't listen to their newer stuff. I like the older albums from 60's and 70's plus perhaps some individual tracks and "Water from Well" album.

The thing with Chieftains I think is that one likes none of their work if looking for strictly traditional music. But, I like their older stuff just for the reason that it is original. For the same reason I like for example Flook. In the older stuff there's quite nice lineup (with Mercier, Tubridy and Potts) and I like the fact that they didn't have any guitars and all the harmonies were made with melody instruments. Just listened to their "5" album for long time and I realized that the style of the playing they did is something that one does not almost ever hear in the present irish music. Even though the Flook, Lunasa and others do wild things with traditional music, they don't use such original arrangements and harmonies as Chieftains did. IMO Chieftains represents very widely musically talented persons and musically highly creative mind that I just have to fully respect. Of course, if constantly trying to do something new, one firstly goes from traditional to non-traditional music and secondly there is occasionally some not so good results.

[SteveShaw]

I think that Paddy Moloney's ego is far too much to the fore on an awful lot of their recordings. There's a lot of treasure in there though.

Do you say this because the pipes are featured a lot? Just curious.

Well I do find his playing a bit too decorative for my taste and he seems to want to be in on every arrangement with 'em. I suppose he is the boss. I don't have all their albums by a long chalk, especially recent ones (Long Black Veil was so awful that it put me off everything after it), so this may not be a very balanced view I admit. The other "fusionistic"-type albums of theirs I have are the one with Van the Man (AAARRRGH!!) and "Another Country," which is a bunch of fun. I like Chieftains 2 best despite the awful bodhran din on one or two tracks!

[fel bautista]

Actually there was a thread on the UP side of the fence that was hoping Paddy would release a solo album of piping. Taught by Leo Rowsome, does some nice stuff on Drones and the Chanter.

You don't get to hear him play the regs that I can remember

[SteveShaw]

Actually there was a thread on the UP side of the fence that was hoping Paddy would release a solo album of piping. Taught by Leo Rowsome, does some nice stuff on Drones and the Chanter.

You don't get to hear him play the regs that I can remember

I know he's good but he's a bit too much of a warbler for my tastes. Shoot.

[Wormdiet]

I mean, if the Chieftains aren't playing traditional Irish tunes, then, what the hell have I been playing on my whistle these past 2 years?

Maybe I'm missing, or have missed something here, or I just don't know the real definition of traditional Irish music...

IMO a lot of folks get too hung up on drawing lines between genres. In other words, the point of the music, for most of us, or at least me, is to enjoy it, not categorize it. What makes it "authentic" is less important than what makes it good musically. Which is extremely subjective anyway.

Which is NOT to say that listening to old greats, the real "trad" stuff, is not worth one's time, effort, and appreciation.

On the original question, the Chieftains have made a ton of great music. I suppose my preference comes from the fact that I was weaned on Thistle and Shamrock in its early days. I don't have many Chieftains albums, but I pull them out occasionally if I'm in the mood for a "baroque" treatment of Irish music.

One thing that really made the Chieftains unique was Derek Bell. Very few big-name Irish groups have a harp as an underpining of the ensemble.

[straycat82]

The other "fusionistic"-type albums of theirs I have are the one with Van the Man (AAARRRGH!!)

Oh man! I don't think I've ever heard someone butcher a lovely song as much as Van Morrison butchered "She Moved Through The Fair"! He did a pretty good version of "Star Of The County Down" though.

[buddhu]

I love the Chieftains, but I could do without all the guests on their newer albums. If I want to listen to country music, I'll buy a country album...and if I ever find myself wanting to hear Sting murder "Mo Ghile Mear," I'll check myself into the nearest psychiatric institution!

Redwolf

Yep, Red nails it for me. I voted early stuff.

Great musicians, but they don't always play what I want to hear.

[nonagon]

I have a few of their early recordings tucked away on vinyl SOMEWHERE!!!. I enjoyed some of their music at that time but moved on to Planxty and the Bothy Band.

Some of the earlier stuff was okay!!

That's the story. moving on from the Chieftains.
It seems as though said band is advancing faster than it's audience, not accommodating the need for pure "traditional".
thye're in good company however.
The same thing happened to my all-time IrTrad champions Stockton's Wing, from which I'll never move on.
They started out as traditional and slowly worked their way twards becomming a mediocre pop group which for me, as a listener, was a painful process.
I guess my point is that the Chieftains had served a purpose to many listeners and then categorized as irrelevant.
I have a few of their albums to which I hardly ever listen...

...I listen to Stockton's wing's first two studio albums and their live one once or twice a month.

[feadogin]

Agree with DJM on the start of things way back when. Even now, they still have gems on their albums. And who wouldn't want to play on stage with them??

Uhhhh...me.
I liked a few of their albums when I was just starting to listen to Irish music, but I don't listen to them any more.

J.

[Hummingbird]

hey, can someone clarify for me what exactly is not traditional about their early albums? I don't mean following a jig with an air, or somesuch, but what about the actual playing of any particular tune is not trad? When I compare it to "pure drop" recordings (my idea of "pure drop" is Willie Clancy, Seamus Ennis, Paddy Carty, Micho Russel, Leo Rowsome; am I wrong?) I don't hear what the fundamental musical difference is. Thanks for being patient with my ignorance, and I hope someone can explain this to me.

[Key_of_D]

hey, can someone clarify for me what exactly is not traditional about their early albums? I don't mean following a jig with an air, or somesuch, but what about the actual playing of any particular tune is not trad? When I compare it to "pure drop" recordings (my idea of "pure drop" is Willie Clancy, Seamus Ennis, Paddy Carty, Micho Russel, Leo Rowsome; am I wrong?) I don't hear what the fundamental musical difference is. Thanks for being patient with my ignorance, and I hope someone can explain this to me.

I think thats what I asked a while ago.....