What exactly are Burke Composite whistles made of?

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:34 pm

What are Burke's composite whistles made of? On the Whistle Shop website, it says it's Bakelite, which I'm finding a little information on in layman's terms. I'd rather not have to dust off my PhD in chemical engineering to understand a whistle. Oh that's right, I don't have a PhD in chemical engineering anyway. I forgot.

I'm seeing descriptions including plastic, and wood, with the hardness of metal.

Does it feel like a plastic? If not, what?

Thanks,
Jason

emmline · Post by **emmline** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:18 pm

Oh, I was going to say bakelite. In layman's terms, that means the stuff they used to make old black telephones out of. The thing is, a Burke composite is so peculiarly lightweight, that in practice it doesn't remind me of an old deskphone, but I can tell when I rub my fingers across it. It feels more stone-like than plastic.
For a more materials-oriented explanation, check the story of bakelite (scroll down a bit.)

FJohnSharp · Post by **FJohnSharp** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:38 pm

I thought it referred to the bulb in the oven.

chas · Post by **chas** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:52 pm

They're Bakelite with wood (or maybe wood-like) fibers; the composite refers to the fact that they're a plastic with fibers, thus two different types of materials (kinda like bike frames and stuff that are made out of graphite-resin composites). JP, don't take my word for it, why dontcha email Mike and ask -- he's usually pretty responsive.

Emm, the reason they're so much lighter than the old phones or pnhandles is that they're so thin; the composite nature is only a second-order effect.

Post by **Dale** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:54 pm

My recollection is that it's a composite of polymer and wood fiber.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:07 pm

chas wrote: Emm, the reason they're so much lighter than the old phones or pnhandles is that they're so thin; the composite nature is only a second-order effect.

Plus they don't have a big heavy bell or electronics inside

Michael Burke · Post by **Michael Burke** » Tue May 09, 2006 11:16 am

Hi- Michael Burke here,
Many thanks to Emmline who provided a very good link that explains bakelite very well indeed. It is the oldest of the thermoset plastic resins. These are different from the thermoplastics like PVC, which can melt if heated.
Bakelite composite is made from a coarse fiber mat made from tree pulp, or a kind of industrial paper. The important thing is that the fibers are wood fiber and wood fiber is very strong in tension and very light too.
The bakelite resin is soaked into the fiber mats and then the wetted mats are rolledon a mandrel and baked in a very hot (about 500degrees F, I believe) oven for several hours to thermoset the composite. Someone also described the defiinition of a composite, which is nothing more than the combination of two materials- one of which is very hard and strong in compression and another that is very strong in tension. What you get is a very light and hard material that is very suited for musical instruments and sounds more like natural wood than anything else.
We see composites everywhere we go in the world. Wood itself, is a natural composite made from cellulose and fiber bonded together by the wood resins made by the tree. It is very light and very strong for it's weight. We make a composite of concrete by adding structural steel rods to it to make the stuff hold up massive amount of weight, unlike ancient all stone structures that relied upon arches and massive thick stone walls to support them.
The modern composites are fiber glass using polyester resin and glass fiber mats and carbon fiber and whatever resin they use.
Bakelite composite material is loved by it's fans for it's light weight, warm feel to the hands and for the more mellow tone that one gets compared to a metal whistle. It will not crack due to moisture if you forget to swab it out but it can shatter if dropped from too high a place or if you crush it. Thermosets are much harder and more brittle than thermoplastics. I use black delrin for the heads of my whistles, because it is more suited for that purpose.
Hope this explains anything that the astute members who already posted have not already stated.
All the best
Mike

Jason Paul · Post by **Jason Paul** » Tue May 09, 2006 12:05 pm

Thanks to everyone for the information. Sounds like great stuff, and very suitable for the purpose.

Jason

anniemcu · Post by **anniemcu** » Thu May 11, 2006 12:35 am

Jason Paul wrote:Thanks to everyone for the information. Sounds like great stuff, and very suitable for the purpose.

Jason

I had the opportunity to try a couple of Mike's composite whistles in St. Louis last month, and I have to say, it was a pleasure... excellent sound, light weight, interesting texture to the appearance, and the warmth was surprising to me, being used to brass. I will eventually own one.

Whitmores75087 · Post by **Whitmores75087** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:12 pm

My wife bought me one recently. Very in tune. Medium volume. Bit more of a throaty sound (or should I say woody) when compared to my metal Burke. Easy to play. I can seal the holes with a moderate touch. Takes a little extra blowing at the high end, which I prefer because I feel like I'm "singing out" at the high end. I like it a lot.