Board Demographics or let's get real!

[claudine]

Martin, are you talking about Phil O'Sophic or Phil & Thropic?

[Bloomfield]

On 2002-08-21 20:56, totst wrote:
What is guac?

Guacamole. Mexican avocado dip. Mmmmmhhh...

[Bloomfield]

<sigh> :roll:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-08-22 15:12 ]</font>

[jim stone]

I think we have 1,368 registered
users. Of course far more people
read the board; so thousands of people
read the board, quite a few
of them interested in buying
whistles. It's hard to believe that
people who make a living selling
whistles don't understand what
this means. Susato has occasionally
asked the board for suggestions
about its whistles, so Susato
cares (or at least cared) what we think.
Of course plenty of whistle makers,
Mike Burke, Michael Copeland, Glenn
Shultz, John Sindt, et al probably
aren't doing much of their business
in Spain.

The point of the
board isn't to affect the market,
but I think our opinions
matter to many whistle makers,
and for good reason.

[peeplj]

--quote--
Susato has occasionally
asked the board for suggestions
about its whistles, so Susato
cares (or at least cared) what we think.
--endquote--

I haven't read anything here that would make me suspect they've stopped caring about that.

Posting concerns or suggestions about whistles on the board is a good thing to do and it primarily benefits the other board members.

In my opinion, if you want your concerns or suggestions to have the most possible impact on the maker, it makes the most sense to contact that maker and express your concerns directly to them.

--quote--
The point of the
board isn't to affect the market,
but I think our opinions
matter to many whistle makers,
and for good reason.
--endquote--

I would agree with that.

Best to all,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

[StevieJ]

On 2002-08-22 11:20, peeplj wrote:
In my opinion, if you want your concerns or suggestions to have the most possible impact on the maker, it makes the most sense to contact that maker and express your concerns directly to them.

I did exactly that James a couple of years ago. I suggested to Mike that he consider making a narrow-bore high D. His response was very patronizing. I'm prepared to give a man the benefit of the doubt but Mike's contributions here are certainly doing nothing to dispel my initial impressions.

[Loren]

On 2002-08-22 09:55, Bloomfield wrote:

But let me apologize anyway for slandering you publicly here on the board, making it look like I was trying to understand Mike when really I was needling you you. It must have hurt your feelings.

Actually, what happend was this: You tried to engage me on the issue in the other thread, as shown in the section you quoted in your last post. Now, in an attempt to keep peace here on the message board, I declined by saying nothing.

You and I had discussed this (keeping the peace) off board several weeks ago, and I thought we had an understanding, had come to an agreement - That we would avoid each other here on the board, in order that all might live more harmoniously.

You however, don't seem to be able to leave well enough alone: Instead of simply letting Mike fight his own battles, he's certainly quite capable, and inspite of our agreement, you felt the need to jump in and try to engage me regarding my post. Why won't you simply leave well enough alone Bloomfield?

But you won't. So instead of trying to make your point in this thread some otherway, you quasi-qoute me from the other thread (since you couldn't get a reaction there), knowing full well how irritating I find that, since I've stated it emphatically several times on the board before.

And now you're trying to dance around and put this back on me, sh*t. I offered, in good faith, a simple way to avoid so much nastiness here: I avoid commenting on your posts and in retrun you avoid commenting on mine. I kept my end of the bargain, but you, for some reason I can't fathom, simply can not control your urge to engage me. What is your problem?

Dale, I swear to you man, I have really tried here - nothing more I can do with this guy.

Loren

[peeplj]

--quote--
I suggested to Mike that he consider making a narrow-bore high D. His response was very patronizing. I'm prepared to give a man the benefit of the doubt but Mike's contributions here are certainly doing nothing to dispel my initial impressions.
--endquote--

It is interesting to note, though, the narrow-bore high D Susato recently introduced.

Perhaps your comments counted more than you thought?

What I'm getting from Mike is that he is a person with a very gruff, direct personality. While folks like that in person often come across as personable enough, it can give them a bad image online. The written word is not effective for conveying subtleties of emotion, such as wry humor or sarcasm.

At any rate, I don't know Mike and have never had any contact with him, so I have no idea how he really is in person.

I do know from experience, though, that it is a mistake to judge people too harshly from what they post online. Often they don't fully realize themselves how they really do come across.

This is perhaps a valid comment towards others on this board as well.

My best to all,

--James
http://www.flutesite.com

[Bloomfield]

On 2002-08-22 11:59, peeplj wrote:
--quote--
I suggested to Mike that he consider making a narrow-bore high D. His response was very patronizing. I'm prepared to give a man the benefit of the doubt but Mike's contributions here are certainly doing nothing to dispel my initial impressions.
--endquote--

It is interesting to note, though, the narrow-bore high D Susato recently introduced.

Perhaps your comments counted more than you thought?

James, I like your thought, but in this case I think StevieJ's impression that his feedback wasn't really appreciated is right. Take a look at a couple of things Mike has said elsewhere (alba thread):

On 2002-08-08 16:21, Kelhorn Mike wrote:
... from my point of
view (A manufacturer-SUSATO) the feedback
we get from consulting with who we feel
are very good players and we do do this
all the time (I'm not going to mention any names here) carries the most weight
along with what others in the business
tell us. If someone I don't know from
the board says you need to change this
or I won't buy or reccomend your whistles
well I usually pretty much do ignore
them. And this has happened more than once.
....

So that put me in mind of the gruff/patronizing (you pick) responses I remembered StevieJ getting here when he suggested that the SB D could be improved, and that the VSB D did appear shortly thereafter. So, they listened after all, I thought. After reading the post just quoted, I asked Mike Kellhorn: how did the decision to make the VSB D come about?
He responded:

On 2002-08-09 08:45, Kelhorn Mike wrote:
Hi Bloomfield;
Well the VSB -D- was unintentional in
a sense. We wanted to make higher keyed
whistles -G-,-F-,-E- which required a
smaller bore so we commissioned the
injection mold for the body and the
headjoint. When the mold was done
and we had the parts molded we just
had to see what a -D- would sound like
with the smaller bore and were very
pleasantly pleased after a little
experimenting and decided to
offer this for everyone who wanted
a "softer" sounding whistle. So
we now had a whistle for everyone
who thought the small bore was to
loud and difficult in the second
octave. We still sell more of the
larger bore but a lot of people
like the VSB. That's the story
in a nutshell. Thanks for asking!

Kelhorn Mike

So, I think Mike is being quite honest and serious about how much c&f and the emailed opinions of boardmembers matter to Susato. That's good to know, if incompatible with regarding Chiff & Fipple as the center of the whistle universe.

I don't mind Mike's gruffness of tone, btw.


_________________
/bloomfield

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bloomfield on 2002-08-22 12:13 ]</font>

[mjmtex]

On 2002-08-22 01:30, Ridseard wrote:

I lived in Houston for four years, and you can get just as good Tex-Mex food (and great frozen Margaritas) in Asheville, NC (which is not too far from Mike's place). (Maybe Tex-Mex is better in Ft. Worth than in Houston?)

When it comes to good Tex Mex, Houston might as well be disannexed and given over to Louisiana...its not even a contender. During my somewhat extensive domestic travels, I have found no better cities than Ft. Worth and Austin for Tex Mex food. I've never been to Asheville, but what Charlotte and Greensboro had to offer didn't stack up. If interested I'll post a seperate reply with some dining recommendations. Only warning is where I go they typically don't speak English, and they don't take Visa.

On 2002-08-22 01:53, The Weekenders wrote:

I swear this is true.
When in England visiting Stonehenge, I overheard a Texan, muttering, "we got bigger and better in Texas."

He was likely referring to the size of his hotel room...and not the earth mounds or stone!


Cheers,
Matt

[Hwistle]

On 2002-08-22 10:38, jim stone wrote:
Of course plenty of whistle makers,
Mike Burke, Michael Copeland, Glenn
Shultz, John Sindt, et al probably
aren't doing much of their business
in Spain.

To my knowledge, the most sold whistles in Spain are Generation, Susato and Overton, and maybe recently Dixons, apart from some Spanish makers.

Manuel Waldesco

[The Weekenders]

On 2002-08-22 07:54, Martin Milner wrote:
Phil- "There's no such thing as absolute truth!"
Sophie- "Really? Is that true?"
Phil- "Absolutely!"
Is that a Phil & Sophie cal debate?

Hey Buffy:
an old exchange between my brother and i:

"are you sure?"
"Im positive"
Only fools are positive
Are you sure?
Im positive.

Fits right in.

And Claudine, we have micro and small breweries that make very excellent ales that win international prizes and so forth. Of those, I have daily personal experience aned vouch for their quality comparable to excellent cask-cond. ale in England which I greatly enjoyed in 1985.

Ill leave it to czechs and germans for Pilsner, which I find a little weak. I look forward to being educated to Luxembourger beer but won't knock it until I tried it.

All in good fun.

And just for the record: the only whisltes I knew about prior to 12/01, when I discovered Chiff and Fipple, were Gens, Clarks and Feadogs, Oaks. Every other make has been because of this Forum.

And as stated earlier, I spend greenbacks. i wish Mike Burke would make a comment about what C&F has meant to him but he's a busy guy, filling all the C&F inspired orders that represent a tiny portion of the tinwhistle market.

And tho KMike used the word humble(y) twice in opening thread, I dont know if that was so, in retrospect.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-08-22 13:09 ]</font>

[jim stone]

Bloomfield, the occasions when Susato
solicited opinions on the board were
before you arrived. Let me add that
I see this as gracious, not economic
desperation. I actually put my foot
in it back then, by suggesting here that
surgery on the mouthpiece was in order.
In retrospect I think Susato did well not to take that so seriously.

Of course, whistlemakers care what
people think of their whistles, whether
the opinions expressed make an economic
difference. 'Caring' is a bit ambiguous;
I would say that people who react
strongly to what's said here 'care'
about what's said here. By that
standard, I do think Susato cares.

Posts that begin 'I've got a lot of
free time right now, so I thought I'd
say...' are often efforts
to start a quarrel for the exercise.

It's good to be reminded of the
larger world of whistledom; and as
Dale points out, it's plain
that Chiffandfipple is
making an economic difference.

[LeeMarsh]

I noticed that we're all talking about the arguers and not the arguement. This is what initially puzzled me about Mikes post.

If this board only had 3 members; but, they accurately reported on whistles, then they'd be valued. I think everyone here tries to be accurate with our discussion of the various whistles. Often responses and follow-up posts clarify conditions regarding a whistle, pushing the original poster to be concise and more descriptive about the characteristics he or she finds in a particular whistle.

The free, and reasonably polite, nature of this board allows folks to do more than just send a letter off to a maker with an initial impression. It enables the members or posters to get a better understanding of the funny little piece of tubing. As a result when we do send a note off to a maker, we are much more likely to explain fully what is liked or disliked about the whistle.

So rather than argue with ideas or facts about an issue or product; mike appears to discount the arguer, commentator, or poster. This is a nice deflective technique, if it works, but it doesn't really make any difference if we have 50,000 members or just 5, the arguments, comments, and observation stand on their own merit or they don't.

So let's not get deflected by Mikes comments, let's get back to the real reason we're here. Our amazment and joy over pieces of tubing and the delightful music that can come from such a small instrument.

Even in the hands of a begining amatuer like me, it can spread the word to ...

[Loren]

On 2002-08-22 15:55, LeeMarsh wrote:

I think everyone here tries to be accurate with our discussion of the various whistles. Often responses and follow-up posts clarify conditions regarding a whistle, pushing the original poster to be concise and more descriptive about the characteristics he or she finds in a particular whistle.

And this is exactly why I think the idea of a seperate Whistle Review Forum is a bad idea. (Sorry Lee, I know we're OT here again...Feel free to move this somewhere more appropriate, I can't do move the text here on the board, it's a browser thing I'm afraid) Star or number ratings will make things even less accurate, as different experience levels come into play - someone who's only played 5 whistles is likely to have a very different idea of how well a whistle is made or responds, when compared with someone who's played 50 or 100 different whistles.

Only by having the sort of discussions that come about as the result of a review, can we really get the accurate picture. Now, if this can be done in the new forum (and why not) then I believe it will make for a much more valuable option than simply having a one stop whistle review depository where anyone can just do a Hit and Run or Drive By review

Again, please forgive the OT nature of this post, I'd have moved it if I could have.

Loren