Fruit Loop Discussions - the Circle of 5ths

[dfernandez77]

...and learned their version of solfege.

That would be the one fried in ghee and spiced with curry?

[dfernandez77]

And this will continue ad infinitum!

And then you will reach Cosmic Consciousness!!

Mais oui - naturalement!

Hold on there bucko! I was reaching Comic Consciousness. Far more preferable as far as I am concerned.

Oh bartender, I would prefer a cold beer, if you would be so kind. Yes, I know that it is a little strange, but I would like my beer in a tall glass with ice cubes. None of that luke warm beer for me, please.

Ummm. Doug...
I don't think he has beer. But I heard he serves the 50% port 50% soymilk drinks you savor.

[talasiga]

Years ago, I was found of studying old books of philosophy, music theory, and other dry stuff. Back then, I understood the circle of 5ths "perfectly". Now, having an excellent visual memory, I can open the pages in my mind and see the circular diagrams, but, unfortunately, the print material on the rest of the page is missing, which is somewhat like having a new car with no wheels. I can open the door and sit in the drivers seat, but I can't drive anywhere. Likewise, I can listen to and enjoy music, but I haven't a clue as to the key or mode that I am listening to. I ask you, am I better off now or before with regard to my listening enjoyment?

......

It depends on the focus of your listening enjoyment Doug.

I have been listening to ITM for nearly thirty years now and being moved emotionally especially by the slow airs and songs. Now, since about 2001, because I want to play some of this, identifying the keynote and the mode of a piece tells me what notes I will use and hearing phrases and ornaments in a way that will enable me to play it brings a new level of listening enjoyment.

I am also composing a lot these days and naturally this informs my listening.

For myself, I dont find that left brain and right brain activities are at odds or work detrimentally. I have never found intellectual apprehension to decrease my emotional sensibilty. But then, I am a very emotional person.

The sound of a curlew calling can make me cry. This is true. The fact that I (through intellectual process) know that its a curlew does not decrease the entrancement.

Its just how I am. You may be different. Therefore, ultimately, I cannot answer your question for you Doug. It depends on what you are. See?
Its not about being better.

[C age ing]

All of this not knowing The Circle of Fifths. Surely it was made famous by that great Italian girl Ella Strad, inventor of the most popular piano accordion bass system. With the added question, is anything popular about the piano accordion?

[talasiga]

I really don't quite understand why there is all this hullaballoo about making gismos and long drawn out discussions in certain topics at this site for to figure out circle of 5th. Now just go to my first sober post here in this topic which happens to be the first post in this topic. Here is an excerpt from that sober post:-

......If you take any note as your key note and go up 7 semitones you get your perfect 5th.
................

Thats really all you need, isn't it? I mean lets name the notes as they are called in current western music convention.

There is A Bb B C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A ad inf.
or it's A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A ad inf.

So if you take any note as your tonic and count 7 steps or semitones UP from any it you will get its perfect fifth. So, you can see the fifth for A is E and the fifth for E is B? etc etc

Its probably just a tad above kindergarten arithmetic.
(Unless you want to bring in the stuff about just versus equal tempered intonation.
That, however is unlikely, given that we're all on the KEYboard here. hehhehe)

Now if anyone here cannot work out, on the basis of the naked facts of this post, or from their own general knowledge, (and, without wikipediating or otherwise conferring), what the fifth for G# is, I respectfully request that they leave this corner of the pub!

[cowtime]

I respectfully request that they leave this corner of the pub!

Will do. I think I'll go play some music.....

[anniemcu]

I really don't quite understand why there is all this hullaballoo about making gismos and long drawn out discussions in certain topics at this site for to figure out circle of 5th. Now just go to my first sober post here in this topic which happens to be the first post in this topic. Here is an excerpt from that sober post:-

..... Now if anyone here cannot work out, on the basis of the naked facts of this post, or from their own general knowledge, (and, without wikipediating or otherwise conferring), what the fifth for G# is, I respectfully request that they leave this corner of the pub!

Hmmm... (ohoh... better not tell him about my new little creation ... no... nope... won't admit to it at all...) I guess I'm off to the next pub then...

[fearfaoin]

Wow, you're right talisiga, if all I wanted to do with the circle of fifths
was find the fifth of something, that would be easy. But, the circle is
a very useful graphical representation, like the Periodic Table, with
many other handy functions.

You don't know the power of the Round Side!

[CHasR]

......If you take any note as your key note and go up 7 semitones you get your perfect 5th.
................



Thats really all you need, isn't it?

Sorry, but no.

First the size of a whole tone must be deduced.
Second, shall we take these wholetones from an octave? Twelfth? Fourth?
Third, HOW MANY 'whole tones' shall we divide the octave, or twelfth into?
THEN divide that in 2...
see where Im getting, one has to have a standard tone in place in your method...
(the ancient Greeks talked ad infinitum about this...sitting there with a monochord and abacus...in fact, we have more discussion about ancient Greek music than we do actual ancient Greek music...)


The way to get your circle of fifths is through the overtone series:

fundamental: C
1st overtone: c
2nd overtone: g

take this g as the next fundamental, then you get;

fd: g
1st: g'
2nd: d'

take this d' as your next fundamental, then you get a as the 2nd overtone,
etc, c,g,d,a,e,b,F#,c#,g#,d#,a#,f, c

doubling the frequency/string length to keep the sucessive fifths in a reasonable octave.

String players tune by harmonics all the time. Try playing up 7 semitones on the violin to get the next string' s note. it dosent work.

And to avoid the diatonic comma, keeping the b-c interval suitably small, one can go to the 5th overtone and use it as a fundamental:

C-c-g-c'-e'
you'll get a b" from that e'

There's a wonderful book by Paul Huindemith detailing the derivation of diatonic notes from the overtone series; 'Fundamentals in Musical composition' published by Schott, I'll look it up for you.

[Ro3b]

One way of appreciating music is to apprehend the beauty of the mathematics. Patterns are everywhere you look. The Lydian/Phrygian/Lydian pattern is something I hadn't noticed before, and it's very cool.

(Just coming back indoors after a post-breakfast cigar with my third cup of good strong dark coffee. Yum.)

[rh]

reminds me of george russell's book... i was quite into it once upon a time, i wonder if i've got it buried in a box somewhere...

[fearfaoin]

The Lydian/Phrygian/Lydian pattern is something I hadn't noticed before, and it's very cool.

What's that, then? I'm not even sure how to google for it...

[rh]

The Lydian/Phrygian/Lydian pattern is something I hadn't noticed before, and it's very cool.

What's that, then? I'm not even sure how to google for it...

see the first two posts of this thread.

[fearfaoin]

see the first two posts of this thread.

2-year-old talasiga posts?
I'll try...

[talasiga]

WARNING:- REVIVED TOPIC


Well then fearfaoin, how did you go?
Do unedited posts change with effluxion of time?