Fruit Loop Discussions - the Circle of 5ths

[talasiga]

Caj, your post about mode relativites, which is standard and music theory wise unremarkable, misses the salient issue here. The issue is about the starting tonic and the circle of fifths returning to it and the range of intervals thus described creating a perpetual complementarity of Lydian/Phyrygian and nothing else.

Please reconsider my post:-

........
If you take any note as your key note and go up 7 semitones you get your perfect 5th. Now if you go up 7 semitones from that perfect 5th you will get your second perfect 5th and you keep doing this until you have covered all possible intervals in any octave. Now what you will find is that you will first get the notes of the Lydian (Kalyaan) Mode and then the notes of Phrygian (Bhairavi) Mode. And this will continue ad infinitum!
...........

Lets do it with D keynote again.
D up 7 semitones is A (perfect 5th)
A up 7 semitones is E " " "
E up 7 semitones is B " " "
B up 7 semitones is F# " " "
F# up 7 semitones is C# " " "
C# up 7 semitones is G# " " "

So here we have our first series of 7 notes and if we arrange them in sequence with D as the keynote we get D Lydian ( D E F# G# A B C# D+)

Let us continue .....
G# up 7 semitones is Eb (perfect 5th)
Eb up 7 semitones is Bb " " "
Bb up 7 semitones is F " " "
F up 7 semitones is C " " "
C up 7 semitones is G " " "
and then, finally
G up 7 semitones is back to D " " "

The new notes in the second series added to the D keynote describe the Phrygian Mode
(D Eb F G A Bb C D+)

And so it goes ........Lydian Phrygian Lydian Phrygian .......

[Cynth]

And this will continue ad infinitum!

And then you will reach Cosmic Consciousness!!

[talasiga]

And this will continue ad infinitum!

And then you will reach Cosmic Consciousness!!

Mais oui - naturalement!


L'orgy musicale inifitASMique .....


Oh Jennie, ou est vous? Quelques corrections?

[talasiga]

Caj, your post about mode relativites, which is standard and music theory wise unremarkable, misses the salient issue here. The issue is about the starting tonic and the circle of fifths returning to it and the range of intervals thus described creating a perpetual complementarity of Lydian/Phyrygian and nothing else.
.............

This diatonic complementarity is unique. No other modes attract a diatonic complementarity (in terms of a common keynote).

For me, the utility of this is for my vocal scale (chromatic) practice every morning. Lets say this morning I am focussing on G as my keynote. Now, singing up and down the 12 notes chromatic progression is frankly quite mechanical and boring. So I break it up into two complemetary scales and end up practicing all the notes in an interesting way. This is more so if I progress the practice with particular raag themes and phrasings in mind including "twisted" expressions of scale.

Those of you who have keyed flutes may find this a fruitful approach also.
Ditto for cello and fretless instruments in general.

Of course there are a myriad other complemetarities to cover all given notes but they aren't diatonic. For example

the natural minor Aelioan (diatonic) is complemnented by Maarwa (not diatonic)
diatonic Dorian (the only symmetrical diatonic mode) is complemented by Pooravi (not diatonic)
diatonic Mixolydian by non diatonic Todi
diatonic Ionian has no complentarity that is classed as a modal scale in the tradition I am familiar and its notional complement isn't diatonic either.

(someone is whispering in my ear - I think its Amar. Hey, Amar! No!
There is no such thing as diet tonic and no I don't serve it. And, put that cigar out! Out! )

[talasiga]

......................
Thass rite! No smoking, no alcohol, no guitars, no satellite TV, no pets, no violins, no djembes, no thongs, no neckties (beau ties allowed)!!

OK, OK. I am making an exception for violin and open tune guitar.
These are now allowed. I recently was very impressed by a Klezmer fidleress. As for guitars, you are must have a predominance of line work (including arpeggios) but HEY! no strumming 2 or 3 chords on and on and on and on and on and on and on.

A bodhran player will be invited into the bar for every guitar player present.

[buddhu]

...A bodhran player will be invited into the bar for every guitar player present.

I play guitar and bodhran... so do I cancel myself out?

[Joseph E. Smith]

So, where can a feller get a good stiff drink of rot gut 'round these here parts... and I aint talkin' no sissy drinks niether?

[talasiga]

...A bodhran player will be invited into the bar for every guitar player present.

I play guitar and bodhran... so do I cancel myself out?

Only if you can do the two at the one time.

[talasiga]

So, where can a feller get a good stiff drink of rot gut 'round these here parts... and I aint talkin' no sissy drinks niether?

The only so called non sissy drink you'll get here is ni-Vanuatu kava. Then we'll see if yer a fella or not ....

[Joseph E. Smith]

So, where can a feller get a good stiff drink of rot gut 'round these here parts... and I aint talkin' no sissy drinks niether?

The only so called non sissy drink you'll get here is ni-Vanuatu kava. Then we'll see if yer a fella or not ....

Well gimmee one o'them thar Ni-Vanny Kavers barkeep... and make it double quick. I gots me a powerful thirst.

[talasiga]

......
Well gimmee one o'them thar Ni-Vanny Kavers barkeep... and make it double quick. I gots me a powerful thirst.

You silly Kavalangi! Nobody requests kava like that! Don't you have any respect for custom?

Any way I don't serve it. You will have to wait until Sitiveni returns (all six foot six of him). In the meantime, you might start practising for the kava ceremony by sitting cross legged there in that corner and practise clapping three times. Also, the kava sessions are long and so you better have some non aggressive topic to talk about. (How about the cycle of 5ths and vicarious applications of the concept?) ......

[Joseph E. Smith]

......
Well gimmee one o'them thar Ni-Vanny Kavers barkeep... and make it double quick. I gots me a powerful thirst.

You silly Kavalangi! Nobody requests kava like that! Don't you have any respect for custom?

Sure, I respects a good custom job, anything to make a iron horsie look bad-ass.

Any way I don't serve it. You will have to wait until Sitiveni returns (all six foot six of him). In the meantime, you might start practising for the kava ceremony by sitting cross legged there in that corner and practise clapping three times. Also, the kava sessions are long and so you better have some non aggressive topic to talk about. (How about the cycle of 5ths and vicarious applications of the concept?) ......

What, no barstool? What kinda waterin' hole is this? I likes cycles tho, 'specially Harleys. I'm gonna gets me one o'them shiny things this summer. Uh, what's a 'application'?

[Daniel_Bingamon]

I play guitar and bodhran... so do I cancel myself out?

Only if you can do the two at the one time.

Actually, you might be able to get away with that. Maybe guitar and whistle at same. Or better yet, play whistle and sing at same time.

My latest stuff messing with Native American Flutes, making lots of sawdust everywhere. I'll have to do an Ahava Rabba mode NA Flute sometime.

It's interesting when I'm talking to people about music and I get into modes and they immediately start on the greek modes and they are suprised to learn that there are others. Some of the folks are those with music degrees, not having one (music degree) myself I just assumed someone would talk about other modes in 4 years. But music is a big field and some things get left out.

[buddhu]

...A bodhran player will be invited into the bar for every guitar player present.

I play guitar and bodhran... so do I cancel myself out?

Only if you can do the two at the one time.

Maybe, after a couple of drinks like the one's that Joseph's waiting for...

[Doug_Tipple]

Years ago, I was found of studying old books of philosophy, music theory, and other dry stuff. Back then, I understood the circle of 5ths "perfectly". Now, having an excellent visual memory, I can open the pages in my mind and see the circular diagrams, but, unfortunately, the print material on the rest of the page is missing, which is somewhat like having a new car with no wheels. I can open the door and sit in the drivers seat, but I can't drive anywhere. Likewise, I can listen to and enjoy music, but I haven't a clue as to the key or mode that I am listening to. I ask you, am I better off now or before with regard to my listening enjoyment?

Oh bartender, I would prefer a cold beer, if you would be so kind. Yes, I know that it is a little strange, but I would like my beer in a tall glass with ice cubes. None of that luke warm beer for me, please.