why does makers' advice vary so much?

[Berti66]

Now I recently got my own wooden stick (after a few loaners...which was great to have) two weeks ago, a LOT of questions came up when I got the following advice of the maker of my flute.....

A few things that got me real curious were especially these:

I could start to play it as long as I wanted, as long as I wiped out every time, but to wait to take the flute out to sessions and the like.
The other advice was to oil the flute EVERY time before playing with almond oil.

Needless to say I am doing as told but I am a bit curious as you read everywhere you have to play in carefully and not to oil too much....
I'd like to hear your experiences to see in how far the opinions vary.
Also, isn't it weird that the advice of the makers (and ideas of players, no doubt) seem to vary that much , so there doesn't seem to be any kind of standard to go by for wooden flutes????

berti

music: food for the soul and the heart.

[Jon C.]

Now I recently got my own wooden stick (after a few loaners...which was great to have) two weeks ago, a LOT of questions came up when I got the following advice of the maker of my flute......

Well it wasn't me, nice thing about Delrin, just throw it in the dishwasher!

A few things that got me real curious were especially these:

I could start to play it as long as I wanted, as long as I wiped out every time, but to wait to take the flute out to sessions and the like.
The other advice was to oil the flute EVERY time before playing with almond oil.

There is a lot of variables, with the makers of flutes:
1. How the bore was finished; was the bore sealed? soaked in smelly linseed oil? not oiled at all? coated with a sealant? Superglue?
2. What type of wood is it; Boxwood, fruit wood, Blackwood, Cocuswood.
3. Was the wood stable when the flute was made, cycled through dryness and humidity.

Needless to say I am doing as told but I am a bit curious as you read everywhere you have to play in carefully and not to oil too much....
I'd like to hear your experiences to see in how far the opinions vary.
Also, isn't it weird that the advice of the makers (and ideas of players, no doubt) seem to vary that much , so there doesn't seem to be any kind of standard to go by for wooden flutes????

So I would say that it would be mainly the first reason, how the bore was treated. The maker probably has a good idea from his personal experence the surviability of his flutes, what the owner did wrong in the past to ruin the flutes he made...

[jim stone]

Yes, it's strange. Maybe people are using different wood,
or qualities or finishes of wood, and that explains it.
However I suspect that a lot of people, though proficient
makers, are subject to myths and personal opinions
about things like oiling.

It is hard to believe that oiling every time you play
is a good idea--though I know some professional flutists
who do just that. One maker, a very good one, has
told me never to oil.

[Jon C.]

Yes, it's strange. Maybe people are using different wood,
or qualities or finishes of wood, and that explains it.
However I suspect that a lot of people, though proficient
makers, are subject to myths and personal opinions
about things like oiling.

I wanted to include "whime guided" but you nailed it...

It is hard to believe that oiling every time you play
is a good idea--though I know some professional flutists
who do just that. One maker, a very good one, has
told me never to oil.

You would think that it wold get mucked up after a year or two, if you oiled every time you played! I would think that if the bore looks dull and absorbed with water, then it would be a good idea to oil the bore. Maybe once a month, more for Boxwood. I like to use profesional bore oil that hardens, then the oil finish will last longer.

[I.D.10-t]

You would think that it wold get mucked up after a year or two, if you oiled every time you played!

I wonder if it is like WD-40?

WD-40 will muck things up to the point that WD-40 is the only thing that will make things work again, cutting its own residue in order to make things work. The opposite of drying oils.

[AaronMalcomb]

It is hard to believe that oiling every time you play
is a good idea--though I know some professional flutists
who do just that.

Are they oiling before or after play? I've heard that Molloy likes to oil his flute before he plays. If that's the case maybe the moisture he's putting into the flute while playing then swabbing it out afterwards keeps the oil from building up.

[jim stone]

Before. It seems excessive, but then I know less about
flutes than these fellas.

[Tom O'Farrell]

Phil Bleazey recommends frequent oiling using almond for the blackwood whistle I bought off him.

[Loren]

I'm not even going to touch this thread, I'd be stoned to death from all sides, without a doubt.

Loren

[bradhurley]

Also, isn't it weird that the advice of the makers (and ideas of players, no doubt) seem to vary that much , so there doesn't seem to be any kind of standard to go by for wooden flutes????

Really I think the issue is that there's a lot of folklore and not much established fact about how best to care for wooden flutes. Most of what is "known" is based on anecdotal evidence or simple logic, and every maker and player has his or her own theories (which may be based on experience, hearsay, or tradition).

As far as I can tell, nobody knows the answers (though some claim to). Most people recommend following the maker's advice since if you do eventually develop a crack or other problem with your flute the maker may agree to do the repairs "under warranty" as long as you have consistently followed his instructions for care.

[jim stone]

Monkey blood, twice a week, I say.

[flutefry]

I don't know the answer either, but here are some guesses. Let's pretend the choices are no oiling, occasional oiling, frequent oiling, and then make some assumptions about the dangers associated with each choice based on the little I know.

Let's further assume that big changes in moisture content lead to changes in size (too wet swells, too dry shrinks, and that these changes can lead to bad things.

Let's assume that oil slows the rate at which water enters and leaves. Too much oil could thicken/gum, make small changes in surfaces that affect sound, tuning, "playability". Certainly some of my better used oiling rags are pretty icky (I use raw flax oil) after a few days exposure to air, and I assume something similar happens in the flute....

So what does that get us?

No oiling. Terry's recent data suggests that at least some woods absorb at least some oil, and therefore are likely to absorb at least some water. In theory at least, if the flute is kept humidified, and played regularly, then the water going into the wood and coming out again doesn't vary much. This seems OK to me, but I'd bet that oil provides a modest hedge for those times when one forgets to moisten the sponge, seal the bag, play regularly, and since most of us are human, this is an argument for some oil.

Occasional oiling. Unlikely to do much good, or much harm if the flute is kept humidified. So why not?

Frequent oiling. Seems to me that this would be OK if the flute was stood up to drain for a long time post oiling to get rid of as much non-absorbed oil as possible. But I'd bet that for most people most times, there is surplus oil, tht isn't swabbed or drained off, and that over time, there will be oil build up. This seems to me like a risk unless the oiling is very light indeed. (A few drops on a cloth max). Still seems simpler to humidify the flute, and to oil once in a while.

The first sentence may be the most important one in this post.

Hugh

[jim stone]

My suspicion, FWIW, is that oiling, except possibly
at the beginning or for some exceptional flutes in
some exceptional situations, does little good.

Monkey blood, on the other hand....

[AaronMalcomb]

Monkey blood, twice a week, I say.

Do you use Old World or New World monkey blood? If Old World, arboreal or terrestrial?

[Jim McGuire]

Matt Molloy travels around the world playing his flute(s) - how can that be anything but a nightmare for any instrument. Matt also needs the flute to deliver 'on command' for the performance so oiling sometime before probably brings the flute to a consistent state for him. Maybe it's more critical to keep the moisture out at all costs as that is what probably destroys the flute. So, oiling up prevents moisture from infiltrating during the 3 hours Matt would have his flute out for the gig with moisture contact. Swabbing it after, of course, gets rid of the moisture.