Mandolin Volume in Sessions-- OK, what's the solution?

Rick C. · Post by **Rick C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:22 pm

Since I've been playing mostly box the last 10 years I haven't even bothered with this issue, but having played mando in a few sessions lately I'm heading down this dead-end road again. (Wow, look at those twisted tenses-- wouldn't you hate to conjugate that sentence in Spanish...)

The usual answer you hear is, "Play Tenor Banjo", as if they're the same thing. I'm an OK TB player, but my right hand is hella better on mando, especially when flootboyz and fiddlurz speed things up. And chasing the High B around never has been much fun anyway.

Few players I've known have chosen mando as their primary session weapon, and lack of volume has got to be a big reason. Now, I don't expect any mandolin to be able to shout down my Saltarelle, but what's the answer? (NOT mando-banjo, that's established, OK?)

Rick

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:54 pm

Hmm, what sort of mando are you playing now? Might be time to upgrade to something like a Collings or a used Flatiron A or F, and heavier strings.

Loren

Rick C. · Post by **Rick C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:03 pm

Loren,

I've played several mandos in sessions through the years, from a cheapo Kentucky to a Gibson A-1 and Sobell I owned at different times. All of them were too quiet, and I play medium strings with a Dunlop 1.0mm pick.
The Chicom Trinity College I play now was chosen mostly because it was louder than anything else I played, and that was everything I could get my hands on locally as well as every single mandolin on Gruhn's wall (and that's saying something). I don't do as much faux banjo pickety-pickety every other note, prefer to let it ring and do some left hand things among all the triplets, which means playing pretty hard with the right hand to have enough sustain to be able to do that. So I'm not a quiet player! In fact, what I usually hear is something like, "@!!*!, that's a loud mandolin!"

Maybe I should qualify the question a bit-- Let's make it a last-night-of-the-festival session with say, 15-20 players. Let's say you're playing Hunter's House and the only notes you can hear yourself play out of the whole freakin' tune is the d-f#-a-f# in the B part. That's what I mean.

I guess I could say Icehouse at Augusta, but that's hopeless!

Rick

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:56 pm

Pffft. only 15-20 players?! Swing by the Greenbriar session here in Boston sometime, typically a 30+ wailing away - last time I was there I recall around 8 fiddles, flute players stacked like chord wood, half a dozen on whistles, 2-3 guitars, 4-5 bodhrans, 2 pipers, a couple of mandos (I think, but I couldn't hear 'em, so I'm not certain

) 3-4 boxes of various species, and one guy playing spoons or bones or something rattley. Doesn't always make for the best music, but tons of nice folks, and often plenty of fine players, so I'm not complaining

Anyway, I haven't got my chops up enough on mando yet to take my Breedlove down there to see just how badly I'd get drowned out, but I can see how it would be easy enough to get buried. And geeze, if you already have the loudest thing on the wall at Gruhn, I don't know what to say, other than it's time crank the Marshall up to 11!

I'll be interested to hear what other suggestions folks have.

Loren

Rick C. · Post by **Rick C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:05 pm

Loren,

Oh yeah, I've been in a couple of Greenbriar sessions during Gaelic Roots, wouldn't even bother taking a mando in there if they are all like that! That's the only place I've ever been where the boxes outnumbered the fiddles and flutes. Several melodeon players were there one night, playing such things as tiger-striped maple Junior Martin cajun boxes stained -Orange-. Wow, what a glorious racket!

I met a Boston area fiddler while in Dallas for the NTIF earlier this month. George.. can't recall his last name. A VERY fine player. I think he's a Greenbriar regular.

Rick

missy · Post by **missy** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:59 pm

while it's not a mando, and not session playing, some of my experience playing mountain dulcimer in jam sessions might be appropriate....

First - even though YOU can't hear yourself, don't be too sure that others aren't hearing you. Both my husband and I play dulcimer, and in a loud jam we cue off of each other, because we can often hear the other and not ourself. So ask those on either side of you if they CAN hear you.

If that's the case, you may want to try some type of amp - AND an earpiece off of it so you can hear YOU.

Or you may just want to go with an amp. THAT will depend on what is acceptable to the others at the session. And, of course, that means you either have a pickup in your instrument, install a pickup, or use one of those "stick on" pickups (which I've never been happy with unless I also have a preamp).

Another totally off the wall option is to get a resonator mando. Tom has a resonator dulcimer (although he plays it strictly like a dobro, with a slide and metal finger picks) and that thing is LOUD. Of course, it's also a totally different sound.

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:15 pm

The sound is loundest along a line perpendicular to the top of the mandolin. If you hold yours like everyone else, your ears are in exactly the wrong position to hear yourself well.

If you can arrage things so that you're playing into a corner or wall, the sound will bounce back to you and you might hear it better.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:19 pm

Rick, yeah you just never know who or what is going to show up at the Greenbriar. I do think it's a bit unique here in the U.S., at least from what I've seen in my travels. I've been so busy with work for the last couple of years (having to get up at 5am), that I haven't gotten down there nearly enough, but that's changing now, so I'm looking forward to making it down there on a regular basis, I only live 10 minutes away on foot!

I don't know George by name, but I've probably seen him more than once, and I'll likely meet him properly soon enough. Certainly there are some fine players here.

Sadly, I arrived in Boston a year or two after the last Gaelic Roots, what a bummer that had to end

Loren

Rick C. · Post by **Rick C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 6:31 pm

Thanks all.

Loren-- George Keith, I remember now. Late 20s/early 30s, brown hair. REALLY good player.

Missy,

Yeah, an amp would not be the thing to do in most Irish sessions but I appreciate the thought. Ha, I have a Vox guitar amp that I plug my Fylde bouzouki into at home every now and then. Sort of Andy Irvine meets Eddie Van Halen.

Simon,

Yep, you know, people sitting 10 feet away always told me they could hear that Sobell just fine, but I could not hear JACK if it were a session of any size. Much the same with this little Trinity College, my wife told me she could hear it well, I could not. And you -gotta- be able to hear what you're doing.

So what now, the National reso mando?

BTW, I bought one of those Johnson metal bodied mandos from Elderly, played it about 10 minutes and boxed it back up. Imagine Kabuki theater with a lot of reverb. My wife and daughter hid in the kitchen, afraid I'd hear them laughing...

Rick

s1m0n · Post by **s1m0n** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:49 pm

You need a Commodium.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:33 pm

Best to grabbed your favorite fiddle for a session, and some of that high-tech rosin that sprays on! How about that banjo mandolin? That should scare the hell out of 'em!

I once strung my mandola up to the pitch of a regular mandolin (switched the strings over one space and got a very thin set of strings for the high E) and it was LOUD. I now keep it tuned to a low open minor tuning and fingerpick So. American Inca music...ala Urubamba, etc. Very soothing. There's nothing like it, and that's mainly why I keep it.

Rick C. · Post by **Rick C.** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:35 pm

s1m0n wrote:You need a Commodium.

Oh yeah, that's -exactly- what I need!

Think I'll pass on the banjo-mando, thanks... Once I did string up my tenor banjo DAEB, that was pretty loud too! Made tunes like Fred Finns a lot easier, but I missed the low G string.

Rick

Wombat · Post by **Wombat** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:13 am

Loren wrote: And geeze, if you already have the loudest thing on the wall at Gruhn, I don't know what to say, other than it's time crank the Marshall up to 11!

I'll be interested to hear what other suggestions folks have.

Loren

I quite like your suggestion. I had a solid body bouzouki made for me with stratocaster wiring and pickups. But, no, I don't take it to sessions.

I have my uses for it.

wolvy · Post by **wolvy** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:58 pm

Low whistle players have a similar complaint. When I play mando, I try to limit it to small sessions. Even better yet, small sessions in peoples homes with 4 or 5 players. Oh that's nice !

brewerpaul · Post by **brewerpaul** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:51 am

I agree with the post about the sound coming straight out of the mando, not up to your own ears. In plenty of sessions, I've been able to hear the mando across the room better than mine. Sometimes if I want to hear what I'm playing, I bring the instrument 'way up on my chest and incline my "good ear" downwards to it. Pretty uncomfortable way to play for long though..