Overton Low D is Flat - Suggested Fixes?

[hpinson]

My Overton Low D whistle is slightly flat, in the first octave, even with the slide pushed all the way in, and when using good breath support. This is noticeable on a strobe tuner in the first octave, and very noticeable in the second octave.

Can anyone suggest a tweak to raise the bottom pitch just a bit?

I'm considering machining the lower barrel slightly shorter, in thousandths of an inch ( i have access to a good metal lathe, and know how to use it). My understanding is that this will raise the pitch? Am I right or wrong in this?

I hate to consider this, but recording with other instruments tuned at A440 is becoming a problem. Again, I do not believe this is a breath support issue in the lower octave, though I understand second octaves are flat in cylindrical bore instuments. The second octave is _really_ flat and no amount of overblowing brings it near to where it should be.

Any input or less radical ideas are greatly appreciated. This is a whistle that I am very attached to-- the tone is just superb.

[Phil Hardy]

Did you try warming it up to hand temp,all alloy whistles are made flat and must be warmed up.
Play it for 5 mins and then try it witht the tuner.
If it fails the tesy when warm then you have a problem,it will have to go back for re-tuning,in this case it will need the body shortend slightly.
Phil.

[Berti66]

you would do best to contact the maker directly before trying anything to the whistle.
berti

[Easily_Deluded_Fool]

Presumably you have allowed the whistle to get warm first?

Metal whistles take quite a while e.g. 10 minutes or so of playing before they are 'properly' warmed up,
and the pitch gets sharper as they warm.

I put my metal whistles on a towel on a radiator for a few minutes
(go make a coffee/tea) to allow this warming,
or put them under warm water via a tap or on several occassions
the mouthpiece in a cup of tea.

Apologies if you already knew this.

I'm sure one of the 'makers' will be along shortly with
an opinion, until then step away from the lathe!

HTH

[Goldie]

Hello Harlow,
sorry to hear, you are having problems with your whistle. Firstly I would not recommend to work on it yourself as every Overton has a life time warranty.

If it is a whistle made by myself and it is flat when pushed together and the tuning slide not loose, then I would suggest it is a user problem. Normally when the whistle head and body are together it will be between 10 and 20 cents sharp, never flat as the holes are drilled and tuned when the body is pulled out. If it is made by Bernard I assume that he does it the same as myself but I would have to check. Anyway will send you an email following this so it can be sorted out.

This is of course saying that what you have, really is an Overton and not one of the many forgeries that are around, as I said we sort it out in emails.

Colin

[hpinson]

Thanks all! I am in touch with Colin directly, and any thing I might try (and screw up) is on my shoulders, and private between myself and the maker. I'm enough of a tinkerer to want to understand the physics of this, and maybe attempt a fix, but don't want anyone else to mess up their nice whistle.

I am convinced that the whistle is a bit flat. Yes, this is even after the whistle is well warmed up, and played using proper breath support.

Again-- this is a great whistle. My bad for not addressing the issue when I first bought the whistle several years back. I have no reason to think that this is a common problem. I had no idea that this whistle had a lifetime warrenty, or that the maker would respond. How cool is that?

[Wombat]

Thanks all! I am in touch with Colin directly, and any thing I might try (and screw up) is on my shoulders, and private between myself and the maker. I'm enough of a tinkerer to want to understand the physics of this, and maybe attempt a fix, but don't want anyone else to mess up their nice whistle.

I am convinced that the whistle is a bit flat. Yes, this is even after the whistle is well warmed up, and played using proper breath support.

Again-- this is a great whistle. My bad for not addressing the issue when I first bought the whistle several years back. I have no reason to think that this is a common problem. I had no idea that this whistle had a lifetime warrenty, or that the maker would respond. How cool is that?

Are you sure it's an Overton and not a fake? Colin will tell you how you can tell so I won't go over the details here.

[Brigitte]

Thanks all! I am in touch with Colin directly, and any thing I might try (and screw up) is on my shoulders, and private between myself and the maker. I'm enough of a tinkerer to want to understand the physics of this, and maybe attempt a fix, but don't want anyone else to mess up their nice whistle.

I am convinced that the whistle is a bit flat. Yes, this is even after the whistle is well warmed up, and played using proper breath support.

Again-- this is a great whistle. My bad for not addressing the issue when I first bought the whistle several years back. I have no reason to think that this is a common problem. I had no idea that this whistle had a lifetime warrenty, or that the maker would respond. How cool is that?

Are you sure it's an Overton and not a fake? Colin will tell you how you can tell so I won't go over the details here.

It is an Overton, we worked this one out.

What we also discovered is that the whistle is being played at an altitude of 7000 feet and we were thinking if anyone may have had experience with tuning when living that high up. Colin was in Los Alamos and the Grand Tetons years ago and could not get much breath to play the whistles but did not think about the tuning. As the air is thinner, does it also mean you cannot push as much through the instrument and that this height might affect the tuning of an instrument. We are wondering if high up wind instruments may have a tendency to go flat? Anyone knows about the physics?

Brigitte

[Silvano]

It is an Overton, we worked this one out.

What we also discovered is that the whistle is being played at an altitude of 7000 feet and we were thinking if anyone may have had experience with tuning when living that high up. Colin was in Los Alamos and the Grand Tetons years ago and could not get much breath to play the whistles but did not think about the tuning. As the air is thinner, does it also mean you cannot push as much through the instrument and that this height might affect the tuning of an instrument. We are wondering if high up wind instruments may have a tendency to go flat? Anyone knows about the physics?

Brigitte

Just supposed you get enough air to blow the whistle there should not be a remarkable difference in pitch at this altitude and thinner air respectivly. All I know from Physics is that the effect should go even the other way because the sonic speed is higher in thinner air and therefore also the frequency is higher.

Silvano

[GaryKelly]

According to this: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/SpeedOfSoundPressure.pdf

The speed of sound in air is unaffected by barometric pressure provided temperature remains constant, so the speed of sound is the same on top of a mountain as it is at sea level, provided air temperature is the same.

However, since air is a non-dispersive medium, speed of sound in air is independent of frequency, pitch is unaffected by any minute changes in sound velocity caused by temperature variations (a note of the same pitch will just arrive at your ears sooner or later, but not shifted in pitch. For pitch shifting, you'd need either a dispersive medium -like water-, or Doppler effect. Or maybe bubbles of helium gas rising up between the player and audience from time to time!).

[Screeeech!!!]

Less oxygen in the air makes the player blow weakly thus giving a flatter note.

This is a common proble with racing cars and bikes. They lose lots of horse power at altitude due to lack of oxygen.

Well that's my theory. Buy a bottle of compresssed oxygen and have a good snort before you play and you'll have more ooomffff to blow the whistle in tune.

[Mack.Hoover]

Whistle Whims and Whys
Why's my Overton got over tones,
Why has my Burke a little quirk.
Also why is my Alba quirky,
Or quirkies in my Copeland lurk?
And my Sindt seem inconsistant,
And my Syn seem out of synch,
Tell us Daniel what you think.
How did Howard have such luck?
My O'Brien' sometimes unruly.
I don't understand Tully fully,
Or what makes a Hoover suck.
Is it barometic pressure,
Altitude, or latitude,
Is your whistle user friendly,
Or possess an attitude?
Can I trust my Busman woody,
Or my Reyburn or my Sweet,
Are they all just being moody,
Why?The question I repeat.
Science is sure to have the answer.
Physics make the answer clear.
Get brand X is my solution:
The finest whistle you will hear!
But I'm open for discussion
Here's your chance to write a line
Expressing here your opinion,
Just make it rhyme when you opine!

[Chiffed]

You just made my day, Mack! Gracie loved it, too. She's two, and has a very critical ear for poetry.

[Phil Hardy]

Yes,you really should be aware of forgeries,I nearly bought a Harper and a Lambe thinking they were Overtons,if it wasn't for the engraving on the Harper and the very slightly rounded top of the windway on the Lambe I'd never have told the difference.
People be vigilant ,you could end up with the wrong whistle.
Phil.

[Bloomfield]

Yes,you really should be aware of forgeries,I nearly bought a Harper and a Lambe thinking they were Overtons,if it wasn't for the engraving on the Harper and the very slightly rounded top of the windway on the Lambe I'd never have told the difference.
People be vigilant ,you could end up with the wrong whistle.
Phil.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.