NEW BOARD POLICY: Moderated Discussion

[Dale]

Anybody here actually have a job?

Loren

[Cynth]

suddenly my tuna fish pie and dump cake recipes make sense.

Yeah, you know a recipe is something you can really get a handle on. No one really needs to discuss the in's and out's of them to the sub-atomic level. They provide badly needed relief. You ought to contribute at least one a day!

[mamakash]

Whenever something comes up(and we all get in trouble) I usually think, "Oh my god, what did I type to insite this?" Then I take a deep breath because I don't usually type anything to insult anyone. Still, I think back through all my old posts . . . am I the only one who does this?

I vote for the inclusion of a new forum called the "Russell Crowe forum", enter at your own risk and keep your fists in front of your face.

Making movies, making songs and fighting 'round the world.

[SteveShaw]

I honestly think we've flogged this to death now. I'm unwatching!

Steve

[Cynth]

Whenever something comes up(and we all get in trouble) I usually think, "Oh my god, what did I type to insite this?" Then I take a deep breath because I don't usually type anything to insult anyone. Still, I think back through all my old posts . . . am I the only one who does this?

I vote for the inclusion of a new forum called the "Russell Crowe forum", enter at your own risk and keep your fists in front of your face.

Well, we do have a forum kind of like that but they're having a "time out" right now .

[jim stone]

Permit me to disagree. I've sometimes asked advice on medical
topics on the fluteboard, pertaining to tendinitis and other
such problems, including cubital tunnel syndrome. I received very good advice
from musicians. I disagree that
it's obviously correct that I shouldn't have done this.
Also I don't think people were wrong to advise me.

Once again, I don't know what's being asked of us.

I don't see why it should be difficult to apply a sensible policy sensibly and reasonably, rather than stupidly and literally. You've never had an issue here which suggests that questions about tendinitis and flute pasture are not at the center of Dale's concern. Thinking about the substance of Dale's concern and making reasonable judgments in each instance should get you there in almost all cases. What Dale is asking is neither obscure nor difficult to apply.

It doesn't seem hard to me, either. I'm not going to try to spell out a highly specific policy. I'm just going to moderate as best I can. We've got moderators to help via PM. I think people can see the difference between someone saying, hey, my hand cramps when I hold the flute this way (Answer: Don't hold the flute that way) and, on the other...uh...hand, gee, I have this pain in my abdomen that won't go away, what should I do?

Could we please not think and talk this thing to death? There are things that have gone on that I can't write about here.

Hi, Dale,

Here's your policy:

I respectfully insist that people not post about mental health topics, in particular, and not ask for or give advice on medical topics in general.

I think it's sensible and fair to take a policy on a plain reading, at
least for starters. Yours says
that we are not to ask for or give advice on medical topics
in general. On the face of things that excludes the questions I
asked on the fluteboard--cubital tunnel sydrome, for instance,
is often treated by surgery and in fact I went to two physicians,
one at Barnes Jewish, another at the orthopaedic clinic
at St. Louis U, to get advice, along with consulting
my colleagues on the fluteboard. They were, by the way,
more helpful than the physicians. It is, please note, not like:
'My hand cramps when I hold it this way' and the answer is not: 'Hold it another way.' It really is a medically-related topic, one about
which musicians sometimes know more than doctors.

Nonetheless I take it you don't think I shouldn't have asked
about this on the fluteboard, or that in the future I shouldn't ask
about related problems. Nor do you think that people shouldn't
advise me.

And I think there have been numerous other
discussions about medically related issues, and dental issues, too,
where suggestions and advice were given, that you do not
mean to preclude.

But then, obviously, you don't intend your
policy 'Don't ask for or give advice on medical topics in general'
to mean that we shouldn't ask for or give advice on medical
topics in general.

The question then arises pretty forcibly,

what does this policy which you insist we follow mean?

Bloomie points out that the policy is not to be followed literally
and stupidly, and I think you concur.

Now, not unreasonably,
I take the force of this to be that we CAN ask for advice on
medical topics, at least sometimes, and that we CAN
give advice, at least sometimes.

I also take it
to be part of what you have in mind that we, in giving advice
about medical-related topics, exercise appropriate care
to give reasonable advice that doesn't endanger anybody.
That's very sensible, no question.

So here is what I take your policy to be, in plain English, if I understand you.

Be careful in giving advice onboard about medically-
related topics, to give advice that doesn't endanger anybody.
Be aware that you often don't know the people you are
talking with, and that bad advice can be dangerous. Err
on the side of caution.

If somebody says something like 'I have a persistent pain
in my abdomen, what should I do?' be sure to tell them to
seek professional help quickly, for instance, to go to an ER.

Please refrain from giving mental-health related advice
onboard. Remember that all sorts of people are reading these
threads, along with whomever you are advising.

Also, please keep in
mind the option of having these discussions in PMs or
e mails. Moderators will moderate onboard discussions,
as they deem necessary.

This is a reasonably specific policy, it strikes me as a
good one, it means just what it says, and I believe,
having read your post and Bloomie's too, that it is what
you have in mind.

Best wishes, Jim

[missy]

No one really needs to discuss the in's and out's of them to the sub-atomic level. !

Cynth - it is QUITE evident you have never worked around a bunch of food scientists!!!!

[Lorenzo]

Jim, here's what you were thinking three years ago...

• I wrote earlier to _________, who described the financial difficulties
  she's had finding treatment for undisclosed emotional
  problems from which her daughter suffers, that I wondered
  if Dale might have some helpful advice.
  The advice I had in mind was about where
  one might look for affordable mental health
  services for children.
  
  This message was dumb (it flowed
  partly from being sick and exhausted due
  to my Beastly Cold).
  
  First, there is no way any professional psychotherapist
  can get into giving advice even of this
  limited sort over the internet
  or in response to e mail from folks on this message board.
  Big legal consequences.
  
  Second, my message may be read as a suggestion that
  Dale be asked to give psychotherapeutic counseling
  over the internet (or in response to e mail)
  to _______ about her daughter's
  problems, to __________, to heaven knows who else!
  I trust that the impossibility of his doing so, and the
  stupidity of our asking him to, is obvious to all.
  
  Dale is off limits--that's Undisputed.
  
  Also while this thread has been
  positive, helpful, and fortunate in its
  timing, I do think there may
  be potential difficulties about threads
  about 'My Struggles With Schizophrenia,'
  etc. read by all sorts of people who may
  have all sorts of problems which may
  consequently surface here where we
  are ill-positioned to deal with them
  (___________ arguably being the exception that proves
  the rule). I don't think that we necessarily
  shouldn't have such threads, but there
  is a public health dimension that it may be
  worth keeping in mind.
  
  Apologies to all. Best, Jim
  http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?p=129353

[Bloomfield]

Jim, here's what you were thinking three years ago...

Oooh, don't ever do that to me, Lorenzo, quoting my three-year-old posts back at me! (Except the funny ones, I guess).

[harpmaker]

Dale, this is your board and you make the rule. No problem here. And just for the record, if I ever say something here that bothers you, feel free to whack me upside the head with the stupid stick

[jim stone]

Thanks, Lorenzo, exactly the policy I think Dale has
in mind. 'Please refrain from giving mental-health related
advice onboard.'

[carrie]

Thanks, Lorenzo, exactly the policy I think Dale has
in mind. 'Please refrain from giving mental-health related
advice onboard.'

jim, Dale expressed the policy he had in mind, and he expressed it clearly, in my opinion: "The best way to avoid this is to respectfully insist that people not post about mental health topics, in particular, and not ask for or give advice on medical topics in general."

It's true that fellow musicians can often help one another. It's also true that thoughtful and knowledgeable people can help with mental health issues. That doesn't mean it will always be so, however, and Dale has every right to insist on no such discussion rather than risk the times bad advice may lead to bad outcomes. But I don't need to rewrite Dale any more than you do: he expressed it plainly enough, as I said. I don't anticipate having any trouble following this policy.

Carol

[Cynth]

No one really needs to discuss the in's and out's of them to the sub-atomic level. !

Cynth - it is QUITE evident you have never worked around a bunch of food scientists!!!!

Oh that's right, missy. I bet a recipe means a whole different thing to you---and here we just munch on those snacks never thinking of the agonizing people have done over them!

[missy]

Oh that's right, missy. I bet a recipe means a whole different thing to you---and here we just munch on those snacks never thinking of the agonizing people have done over them!

yep - takes all the fun out of it when you start thinking about Maillard reactions and Strecker aldehydes and such. When I start saying things like "ohh, that rice had a popcorn odor to it, must have a lot of acetyl pyrroline" my kids will yell "MOM, you're working too much!!!"

[lixnaw]

So no more prayers for the sick then?