The McHaffie Affair

tkelly · Post by **tkelly** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 11:43 am

It would not only be interesting, but it would give people a place to refer newcomers who ask on their 1st or 2nd day what whistle to buy -- before even knowing there are archives to search. (Yup, I did this myself. Got wonderful suggestions, but I'm sure a bunch of people groaned, too.)

Tery

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 2:23 pm

Weekenders,
Negative reactions to your idea started coming in after Mike Kellhorn adopted and made concrete suggestions. You will understand that the idea sounds much different coming from a whistle manufacturer than from another whistler. Second this is a discussion board. On every issue people with disagree (which is why this is worthwhile in the first place). So surely there is nothing wrong with people not liking your idea and saying so? You have offered critical and intersting views on a number of topics.

So then what is it that makes you call people "fickle", accuse them of enjoying deconstruction of ideas, of being remiss in not coming forward with their own ideas, of measuring with two measures, etc.? You considered yourself shot down. Since it can't be the simple fact that some people disagreed with you, I assume it was the tone. But the worst thing that happened is that someone called the review board "ridiculous". That's really very mild. So I think we should just all be a bit-thick skinned, and stick to discussing the ideas rather than worry about being "shot down." Cut people some slack: many are posting in a hurry and many have reasons for posting the way they do that you don't understand (Tyghress didn't know who Mike Kellhorn was). So don't just assume it's about you. Bob Pegritz can do that (It's always about him), but the rest of us shouldn't.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 2:35 pm

On 2002-08-10 01:19, Teri-K wrote:

And to add to Bloomfield's P.S. - Mr Kelhorn Mike owes Loren an apology. That statement was out of line.

Teri

He did apologize (on the alba thread). Fair play to him! I must say that even though the Board of Reviewers idea is getting more negative comments then positive ones, it is great to have Mike here on the forum and posting. I have sense that he is saying things straight---the way he sees them, and that is very valuable and special. Lot's of whistle makers monitor this board, of course, and I suspect that most of them are a bit guarded in their posts. So again: Thanks, Mike Kellhorn.

chas · Post by **chas** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 2:58 pm

I like Scott's idea, too. I have another to bang around.

How'bout a periodic, say monthly, call for reviews of a particular whistle or family of whistles. Dale sometimes calls for reviews of new whistles, but this would be for mature whistles, too. Maybe Dale or Rich (I would volunteer, assuming some logistics could be worked out) could solicit a few (like 5) reviews from people of varying experience* of a specific whistle, these could be collected and posted to the forum, and only then would discussion commence.

* I find reviews from beginners valuable as well as those of intermediates and experts.

Charlie

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:24 pm

I think Charlie (we're not the same guy, honest) makes a good point. Beginners' opinions have validity, too. First, some 'beginners' may in fact be far more accomplished musicians than the old hands, especially those of us turning to music in midlife. Second, many of those who want to know about different whistles' properties ARE beginners. The simple fact is that, whatever we may decide about its tone later on, the Sweetone is one of the two easiest things in the world on which a true beginner can play a pleasant-sounding tune without tons of practice and effort (the mountain dulcimer is the other, but this forum isn't about those). I suspect from comments here that the Meg might deserve inclusion, but I don't have any of those.

I like Scott's idea, too, if someone can either find or write such a thing. It'd be a perfectly valid successor to Dale's best/worse survey of a couple of years ago, and timely in view of the new products and makers on the market now.

(Edited for inept spelling)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chuck_Clark on 2002-08-11 17:26 ]</font>

Ridseard · Post by **Ridseard** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:00 pm

On 2002-08-11 17:24, Chuck_Clark wrote:
Beginners' opinions have validity, too.

I'm wondering, what is a beginner? Let me illustrate my question with an extreme case. Suppose person A has played a whistle for, say, 3 years, but only very casually and without really trying to improve. On the other hand, person B has only been playing for 3 months, but practices intensively for at least 3 hours a day, every day. Obviously, both persons A and B are beginners, but is one of them any more of a beginner than the other?

ScottStewart · Post by **ScottStewart** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 4:04 pm

I think it's a matter of not how long you've been playing but how far you can throw the whistle when you get frustrated...

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 5:20 pm

So, to draw the thread together--
there seems to be a need to protect
people from first-impressions, etc
that might lead them to buy bad
stuff from deadbeats. But most people don't
want bureaucracy, an end to egalitarianism,
and so on. The idea of a review board
satisfies the first need at the expense
of the second. Still there are proposals
in the middle--an information page
which would summarize opinions (maybe
mathematically) and include comments
and reviews. These would come from
anybody who wished--old or new.
It would satisfy the first need without
bureaucracy, etc, and it would give
newbies something to refer to without
raising the same questions repeatedly
on the board. It would be fun to read
and contribute to.

What do you'all think? Is this
worth doing? Can we do it? Does
anybody who has the expertise
want to do it? Dale, what
do you think, is it feasible?

Post by **Dale** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 5:49 pm

I'd love to have a system that rates whistles kind of like, you know, amazon.com where you rate by a 5-star system or something and can post little comments. It's just technically out of my capabilities. Anyone wants to take it on, I'll sure host it.

Dale

Azalin · Post by **Azalin** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:01 pm

Dale,

A system like that would be easy to do, it's to collect the initial database of whistles that's a pain... Anyway, maybe someone else would like to do it, if not I volunteer. I just need the ftp and telnet/ssh username and password of the server, the server needs to be able to run PHP and have MySQL installed with rights to create databases and tables.

JohnPalmer · Post by **JohnPalmer** » Sun Aug 11, 2002 9:39 pm

I think this kind of thinking sidesteps WhOA, which is very much a part of whistle playing. No one can accurately describe with words how an instrument plays. One must purchase or play all the whistles there are, in order to positively identify which whistle is the best for them. I've been ordering whistles for quite a long time, now. I even think that I have helped pay the monthly boat payments for many a whistle maker.

You can't truly and accurately rate whistles. We've had this discussion before and nothing came of it then, and nothing will come of it now.

JP

Chuck_Clark · Post by **Chuck_Clark** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:31 am

John

I really doubt that such a thing would cure WhOA - IMO it would probably facilitate and worsen it. Hard core collector types will always want one of everything they see, and hard core WhOA-afflicted player types will still believe that the best whistle will be the next one.

What this will do, if anything, is cut down the complaints about too-favortable opinions and some of the complaints of some makers that they aren't treated fairly. Also, by helping newer players find a more copacetic whistle, it will keep some of them playing for the duration of the WhOA incubation period.

In a way, I think the whole brouhaha is a teapest in a tempot. I never bought a whistle just because someone else suggested one (OK, maybe I did give Colin's low D a try on Loren's suggestion after my horrible experience with the first water pipe, but that's different). And if I did by a bow-wow, I never blamed anyone else, just shrugged and went on. We need to give people more credit for good sense, I suspect. Never hurts to talk about it, though.

curioso · Post by **curioso** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 4:16 pm

Sorry to tune in late, but I'd like to address the original topic:

Sometimes you have to take risks. Partly due to favorable mention on the board, and partly due to the friendly & helpful nature of McHaffie's early posts, I bought a McHaffie at a fairly inexpensive price. In NO WAY could this be construed as Dale's fault!

It turned out to be a mediocre whistle, so I played it a while till the novelty wore off, then stuffed it in the drawer with a couple of dozen other unfavored whistles from a variety of manufacturers. I wouldn't send the mortgage money to ANY maker (though the Rose was tempting), and I wouldn't bet more on any internet transaction than I could afford to loose.

So he was a hack... If nobody ever took a chance on a new maker, how can new "good" whistle makers be created? You can bet if McHaffie had turned out to be a budding "Sindt" we'd all be singing his praises! Let's not kill off the younger generation of makers, or expect Overton quality for $20!

My next whistle was a Hoover, and I was quite pleased, even though some might have consider him a "semi-pro". You lose some, and you win some...

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:40 pm

Hey Kevin,

Since I've already suggested the idea before, I expect a share of the profits if idea thing flies this time around.....

Loren

Teri-K · Post by **Teri-K** » Mon Aug 12, 2002 6:47 pm

On 2002-08-11 16:35, Bloomfield wrote:
On 2002-08-10 01:19, Teri-K wrote:

And to add to Bloomfield's P.S. - Mr Kelhorn Mike owes Loren an apology. That statement was out of line.

Teri
He did apologize (on the alba thread). Fair play to him!

Bloomfield,

Thanks for pointing that out. Yes, fair play to Kelhorn Mike. I multi-task all day at work, now I have to do it here as well??

Teri