Which Embouchure Shape Do You Like?

[Jon C.]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry for posting something that has to do with flutes, but I couldn't find anyone to fight...
I was wondering what the preference was for Embouchure shapes.
When I turned loose the first Traveling flute, it has a rounded rectangle. I got comments that the players wanted a traditional oval. When I turned loose the second traveling flute in Ireland, I made a oval for that one, and was told that the players liked a larger easier Emb. hole in the Emerald Isle. (Sorry David Levine, that you can't write a reply to this...)
Just curious what you all think.

[meemtp]

I used to prefer a more boxed oval type. Now that my playing has grown and matured, I prefer a nicely undercut ellipse/oval. I think the palette of tonal colors available far offsets the slight increase in proficiency required.

[Berti66]

this seems to be much more a matter of personal preference.
some like it easier, some go for the "trad" way......so it's good jon that you have a few options to choose from.

as far as travelling flutes go, I think it would be great if:
* there would be MORE makers doing so in the first place, and also that:
* it would be great to send a few headjoints along with the flute instead of just one so people can try a few of your headjoints and find what they like, and give the maker a bigger chance to get some more orders in
you don't send those travellers out for nothing, do you jon?

cheers
berti

[Henke]

Definately oval, in one form or another
I find rounded rectangle embouchures great for power and clean sound, but they lack charm and vitality. Feels like one might as well play a Boehm.
Round embouchures are sweet, but I seem to have a hard time playing them with any real power and focus.

[peeplj]

What Henke said.

With one exception--a good Boehm system flute, which is something many flutists unfortunately never get to experience, has its own character and warmth. But it is a different instrument, and an entirely different sound.

--James

[Doug_Tipple]

I don't usually give away trade secrets in a public forum, but since you were nice enough to ask, here is what I have been thinking with regard to the shape of the embouchure hole. As you have experienced, there is no one right answer for this, because if you make the embouchure hole one way, somebody is going to want it another way.

My idea is to offer an embouchure hole that is a simple round hole, drilled a little larger than what the finished embouchure will look like. Then provide a small amount of modeling compound so that the player can design their own embouchure. Digeridoo mouthpieces are made this way from beeswax. When the slime mold begins to build up too badly on the edges of the embouchure hole, you merely need to pull the whole mess out and shape a new embouchure from fresh puddy. You could call it the Cornia-Tipple embouchure, or maybe better yet, the Tipple-Cornia embouchure. Flavored putty might also be a good selling point, as players may like different flavors. I think that I might be partial to chocolate.

Correction: Due to the flurry of critical PM's, I have decided to add to my above remarks. In all truth, I don't think that flavored puddy is such a good idea for fashioning embouchure holes. I do think that it is a humorous idea. However, there is nothing wrong with the basic concept. Fine wooden flutes in the past had inserts of different materials (ivory) from which the actual embouchure was cut. This made for an embouchure made from a stronger material than wood. This could be done on modern flutes. It seems to me that hard plastic would be a suitable material. Plastic inserts could be pushed into place from a larger round hole in the wood. The plastic inserts could have different embouchure holes cut by the maker of the flute, and there could be do-it-yourself inserts for those, like myself, who can't leave well-enough alone.

[Henke]

Were you serious about the PM's? Cause that would be even funnier than the original post, which was good fun all on its own

Cheers

[Chiffed]

Rounded rectangle. The work best for me to just pick up and blow, essential when I'm switching axes in the middle of songs.

I'm becoming more fond of ovals, though. Big ones, with heavy undercutting.

[mutepointe]

dear doug:

you give away trade secrets all the time. right on your website, you give the directions & the specs to make a pvc flute. and thank you very much, mine turned out fine. do you have pictures of how you built up the embrouchure hole? i'm not really pleased with how quiet my self-made pvc flute is and if i could increase the volume, that would be great.

could you see to revealing just one more trade secret?

thanks,
mutepointe

[Wormdiet]

Hi Everyone,
Sorry for posting something that has to do with flutes, but I couldn't find anyone to fight...
I was wondering what the preference was for Embouchure shapes.
When I turned loose the first Traveling flute, it has a rounded rectangle. I got comments that the players wanted a traditional oval. When I turned loose the second traveling flute in Ireland, I made a oval for that one, and was told that the players liked a larger easier Emb. hole in the Emerald Isle. (Sorry David Levine, that you can't write a reply to this...)
Just curious what you all think.

You want a fight? I got one, bud.


LEFTY Embouchures!!!







I can't say I've ever played an embouchure the way it was intended, except for 30 seconds on a Bb flute. Out of which no sounds came.

[Cathy Wilde]

I'm really fond of the sort of gyro-meat-shaped one -- seriously! It looks like a one of those slabs of lamb on a rotisserie in a gyro shop! -- on Murrays.

OK, maybe that's not a good description. How about sort-of-like an oval with slightly bigger hips? Or maybe one of those big spools of thread you see in embroidery shops?

Awww, heck, I give up. Anyway, it's a good in-between, I think.

After that I like an oval with a bit of a chimney, thanks. (and some extra tzaziki on this side, please?)

[Tom O'Farrell]

I think Doug Tipple's suggestion for inserts is a seriously good one.
We could get various shaped embouchures for the same flute and that is no mean accomplishment.
There may be a sealing issue but with a modicum of thought this can be easily handled.
Inserts could be plastic, wood, or metal.

[Jon C.]

I'm really fond of the sort of gyro-meat-shaped one -- seriously! It looks like a one of those slabs of lamb on a rotisserie in a gyro shop! -- on Murrays.

OK, maybe that's not a good description. How about sort-of-like an oval with slightly bigger hips? Or maybe one of those big spools of thread you see in embroidery shops?
Awww, heck, I give up. Anyway, it's a good in-between, I think.

Good one Cathy!
I was going to include the Oval with the big hips, but I didn't know how to name it... I think Terry calls it the "two semicircles" The Gyro meat shaped won't cut it for the vegitarians, maybe butternut squash shaped...

After that I like an oval with a bit of a chimney, thanks. (and some extra tzaziki on this side, please?)

Can't beat that one, right Eilam?

[eilam]

yes, i think my favorite is the deep chimney oval, but it's not the most user friendly, especially when Guinness is served, the friendly squarish is good for loud environment when mostly, you just want to be heard. so it's a tough one, if i had to have only one flute, it would be with an oval and deep chimney, because most the time, is practice and alone, and i have to like the tone and dynamics of the flute.
but many times a Boehm like tool is needed, as long as it's wood
e.

[I.D.10-t]

yes, i think my favorite is the deep chimney oval

What does a deep chimney do for sound? Does it affect both octave equally? If a previous thread discusses this feel free to point it out.

As for my favorite, I only can compare my two fifes. The Healy fife has a rectangular embouchure and when you play it the note it produces is consistent in pitch. The note can be made a bit sharp or flat depending on how you use your lip and blow but not extensively. My other fife is a peeler fife with a round embouchure. I have learned more about my embouchure on this fife because (in my opinion) you have to be more precise in your technique. I also find that the notes can be made sharp and flat to a much larger extent and that F nat is possible without half holing, but using XXX XOX. Something that is not possible (for me) on the Healy. Some day I may get to play an oval, and find out its benefits and drawbacks.

So I guess my preference would be to practice and play for fun on a round embouchure, but if I needed a loud instrument that was forgiving and needed to play on pitch with other musicians, the rounded rectangle.