Would it bother you if........

[Wanderer]

In other countries, where sessions have to be created from nothing, someone has gone to the effort to approach the pub landlord, ask if they can run a music session there, then contact friends and other musicians (possibly through sites like session.org or emailing round a group) to get the thing going.

If a large enough nucleus of players attend regularly enough, and the pub doesn't get taken over as a sports or karaoke bar, and enough extra beer is sold to justify the landlord's decision, or the landlord likes the music and wants to encourage it anyway, the session will survive. The person who started the whole thing, or their nominated representative, is the session leader.

Another sort of session will have been initiated by the landlord himself, and one I used to go to had two guys who were employed (for about £20 each and a few beers), to play on a Thursday night. Everyone else playing was an amateur, there for their own amusement, but these two guys were clearly running the session.

These are the only kinds of sessions I've ever run into here in the states..pretty darn good descriptions.

[Cathy Wilde]

There's a little group of us who gets together to play, and so far the nomadic thing has been working pretty well for us. If slashers start showing up, we move over to the other pub for a while.

[Martin Milner]

Peter, I think the situation IS wildly remote from a session you would find in Ireland.

I know and the thought that to a lot of people that is the state of things is what scares me the most. All that talk of leaders rules and 'play lists' would make me run a mile (I am not one to frequent 'sessions' regularly anyway, I don't particularly like playing in pubs but I enjoy having a few tunes with friends when the occasion arises).

I agree it's not an ideal situation, but a "driven" session is still better than none at all.

Given a few years I think the led sessions will mellow out into more the sort of thing you enjoy, the "gathering of friends" scenario.

I'm not a great fan of (smoky) pubs myself, and prefer a meeting round someone's house, especially in the summer when we play in the garden and watch the sunset.

[anniemcu]

I was away foreign, playing at a festival, and during one of the evening sessions, a man came in and sat down beside me with a whistle. It was`nt a normal D whistle, but a Low whistle ( low D ). Everything was going grand, when someone launched into a set that probably only us tutors would have known.
Whistle man started tooting in a very un-melodic way, obviously not knowing what the tune was, to the point that we couldnt play because we were so distracted by this discordant stuff he was doing in the background.
We all stopped feeling fairly pi**ed off.
Would it have been acceptable to ask him to stop, and point out to him that if you dont have the tune at all, its maybe best to listen for a while, or do you put up and shut up for the sake of not upsetting him and then feeling bad yourself for being so rude?
Which is the more socially acceptable in your opinion?

First of all, my suggestion would be to put yourself in his position and think hard about you would want to be dealt with. He most likely doesn't realise how disturbing his attempt to play can be, and probably really just want to learn the tunes to play along and just doesn't know the 'ettiquete' of sessions.

How about showing him how to play 'silently', while he learns the tune? ... or offer to show him the tune after the set is finished. Look at it as an opportunity to educate with help rather than to just get pissed and judge him too rude for tolerance. (though there are those who are just plain rude, or who think they can play anything whether they actually can or no).

EDIT: Well... now that I've had time to read the rest of the replies, I see I am just repeating earlier advice and indeed that you did just that.

It is sometimes an interesting evening indeed at session. Ours are now tending to be big... with lots of everything... no joke... 3 or 4 guitars (one or two who know what they are doing and several learners), one tenor banjo (the recognized leader, who only steps up to the title when needed), 4-6 whistles, 4 or 5 mandolins, 2 -4 bodhrans, 2 basses... cripes but it can get noisey! LOL!

But.. it is set up as a 'come all' session, based on the idea of introducing people to playing in a group, and not specifically for just firends or for just experts... it's a great deal of fun, and I can say this... a whole lot of learning does go on.

[Caj]

Well, if it were me, I'd talk to the session leader to make sure we're together on this matter, and then I'd go talk to the man.

Sorry but this seems so wildly remote from any situation I have ever been in, and I am sure the situation David is in.

'Session leader' is something that makes me have strange associations in my mind, primary schoolteachers, prisonguards or men in black shirts sitting in the corner keeping an eye on things.

Perhaps then I made the wrong choice of words.

We don't have overt official session leaders out here, with truncheons and badges. But there often is a player or two who is more or less in charge of things---and I wouldn't go telling people to fark off unless it was in line with the desires of the people who run the show.

I don't know if there's a big difference over here, but we do have to deal with periodic new people who don't know that there's an existing dynamic. It's good to have a nucleus of players who are loud enough and coordinated enough to keep the sesh under control.

However you slice it, I'd not tell an annoying player to pack it up without at least talking to someone else first. It ain't my session, after all.

Caj

[BrassBlower]

There are probably ways to defuse the situation without driving this player away.

If it is an organized session with a leader, have the leader and this player exchange e-mail addresses or phone numbers. The leader will probably have some idea of what might be played at the next session, so the new player can rehearse these tunes at home and be prepared to play (properly) at the next session.

If it is an impromptu (e.g. "filk" or "bardic circle") session, encourage this player to call tunes that he and most of the other players actually know, or else pass his turn. (I've seen these types of sessions almost turn into a free-for-all when this rule isn't obeyed.)

[SteveShaw]

There's no leader at our session, but, out of the nine regular attenders (average maybe seven on any given evening), three of us are the "core" - we got the thing up and running years ago, but we're the first to acknowledge that we'd be stuffed if the others decided to abandon us en masse. In terms of proficiency we vary from the "pretty good some of the time" to the enthusiastic learner. The youngest person regularly present is in his mid-40s (it ain't me unfortunately). We get visitors reasonably frequently and they sometimes don't fit in very well. Those who know it are fine - they do their own thing without intruding at all. On the other hand we have seen several people off over the years. This has been achieved in various ways such as cutting the intruder dead, glaring, commenting adversely at the end of a set loud enough for the culprit to hear, having a public word with them (use the assertiveness format: 1.We have a problem, 2.Here's what we think is wrong, 3.This is what we want to happen), or, for the thicker-skinned, ridicule ("Those wooden recorders are impossible to get into proper tuning, aren't they?" "That flute - can't you just push the ends in like the school music teacher used to get us to do?" - say it LOUD!). Sometimes you want to put someone right so that they'll fit in better and sometimes you just want rid of the basmati, and it's important that the regulars agree on this. Just remember that a bunch of blokes and blokesses playing for free Doom Bar on a Friday will not constitute the Vienna Philharmonic or Flook, because if they were that good they'd be out there earning real dosh. The aim is to have a good time (lots of craic at the seisiun ) and you should get all the regulars into the frame of mind that you're not easily going to let someone stop that from happening. You're not being precious or elitist, but you worked long and hard to play those tunes right and you'll be damned if anyone scuppers you!

Steve

[anniemcu]

One thing we do that really helps is to have a slow session for an hour before the regualr session... good for warming up and for beginners getting their feet wet... a good time to teach session ettiquette as well... hmmm... need to do some actual 'lesson plans' on that I think...

[Azalin]

You're not being precious or elitist, but you worked long and hard to play those tunes right and you'll be damned if anyone scuppers you!

Exactly!

[maire]

Thanks everyone, a little reassurance does no harm sometimes, and because I play mostly in the company of men, it can be difficult to handle situations like these, they see things in a simpler light, ie turf him out and that is the end of it!
I would have hated being the one that made this guy give up playing, which we all know can be food for the soul when every thing else in life is mundane. However there is an ettiquette to playing in sessions, and although it might be unwritten, it exists for a reason.
I think our little visit to spain was educational for him, at least I sincerely hope it was.
That way I wont have to listen to the guys complain!

[Sylvester]

I play mostly in the company of men, it can be difficult to handle situations like these, they see things in a simpler light, ie turf him out and that is the end of it!

Really?...do we? well I'm off the forum then!!

[maire]

Sorry to say Sylvester, but in my circle YES!!!

[Sylvester]

I'm afraid that circle is hugely spred all over the world. I own up.

That primitive simplicity is maybe part of our charm

[maire]

I thought that myself Sylvester, but I didnt want to be the person who had to point it out to you!!!
Cant live with men, cant live without them..............

[Cathy Wilde]

Many years ago, I was at a show where a female comic went into a hilarious extended rant about her boyfriend, and then took a deep breath and said ...

"... Men. Can't live with 'em."

It took the audience about two beats to absorb the twist, but then everyone absolutely fell apart.