Dealing with whippersnappers

[Sliabh Luachra]

Okay, a lot of people have been in a tizzy over a young gentleman in our ranks whom many feel thinks he knows more than he knows. In fact I've been tempted to smack him down myself. But I've been in this position before. It worked out just fine but I wouldn't want to take that chance again. Yes, little know it all punks are annoying, but they often grow up to be knowledgable, skilled players.

About 12 years ago I was involved in a local session when this little 11 year old punk kid would come in with his fiddle and play Morrison's Jig over and over at about 140 bpm. Any break in the music and he'd start into again. Then after a while it was Connaughtman's Rambles. Same thing, about 140 bpm whenever there was a break in the music.

Man, we'd all grit our teeth and wait for him to grow up and find a new hobby or get a girl friend or something. A number of times I just couldn't take it anymore. I'd stand up tell the little craphead to either learn some new tunes or quit, either way I wasn't coming back till something changed. And I always meant it. . . til the next weekend (damn musical addiction).

The thing is he got really good, and fortunately for some reason, maintained a friendship with me despite that fact that we loathed each other more than a few times.

The thing that saved the friendship was a couple of things, I had a great deal of respect for his ability as he grew, I watched him turn from this little punk kid into someone who pursued knowledge and history of the music and found the teachers that made him a great player.

Most importantly though, is that we both knew when to stop. . . he learned when to stop baiting us older folks. . . and I learned to let him be a kid and go through what he had to do. He's really one of my favorite people in the world. And he's a freakin' great fiddler/piano player.

Any of you guys know Cleek? You should, and if you haven't, you will. He helped put together the recent Paddy Reynolds cd, and played with John Daly on his album. He's also spending a great deal of time playing with Sean McComisky and Matt Mulqueen. And is on the teaching staff of a lot of the summer schools on this side of the Atlantic anyway.

So folks, I'm not defending Avery's (or anyone's) "knowledge" of everything he considers. It can really be annoying, but I do think we need to cut the kid a break. Yeah sometimes we need to keep folks like that under our thumb and force feed them a lesson or two, but only if the end is growth, for everyone.

And besides all that. . . this is freakin' Irish music. It's supposed to be entertaining for Christ's sake. So let's all have a pint, take a deep breath, play some tunes, and just let him grow up a bit without being abused (too much, that is).

Mark

[Martin Milner]

Until you mentioned a name, I thought it was someone else you were referring to.

I thinkthese youngsters who are interested in the music now will become far better and more knowledgeable players than we are.

[GaryKelly]

Until you mentioned a name, I thought it was someone else you were referring to.

I thinkthese youngsters who are interested in the music now will become far better and more knowledgeable players than we are.

True, but only if they start with a good grounding in the fundamentals. Such as, if you don't know the tunes, shut the feck up, and go and learn them. And if you don't know what you're talking about, do likewise; "no-one ever learned anything by talking" I think is someone's signature on the board, and it's a truism. Pointless noodling, whether in a session or in a discussion forum, is nothing but pointless noodling.

Let's be careful not to tar all youngsters with one brush. There are plenty here and all over the world who are quietly getting on with the business of learning to play, and the better ones are doing so with the aid of a good teacher. They don't seem to feel the need to draw attention to themselves every day, they're just getting on with it. And more power to their elbows say I.

[Henke]

Some of this has had me wondering on wether I've come across as a whippersnapper as well
I'm just 3 years older than Avery, and I can be very opinionated. Don't know if people think that I talk about things I don't know anything about. I certainly have very little experience compaired to many others on the board.

[Tyghress]

ROFL. . .I wasn't sure who you were talking about....Avery is one of my fave 'whippersnappers' of music...extraordinarily nice...gifted...sincere. Didn't know he was causing angst in the ranks. WTG Unseen!

[Joseph E. Smith]

I think we older folks need to recall a time when we behaved in much the same manner... which, IMHO, is why we find such behavior so intolerable. I think patience and guidance is the key here, and perhaps an occasional admonishment where required.

Youth is a time filled with lessons to be learned, where kids test their fledgeling ideas and talents. It is a time that calls for us to set positive, lasting and sound examples.

Remember, patience is a virgin... I mean, viture.

[Wormdiet]

Then there's the issue of older, more knowledgeable and reserved folks who have the social skills of a poison toad. People often equate knowledge with character or maturity, which is not necessarily accurate.

[fel bautista]

viture.

with an R

[Denny]

viture.

with an R

a subtitle, abet Freudian, melding of virtue and vulture

[Joseph E. Smith]

viture.

with an R

a subtitle, abet Freudian, melding of virtue and vulture

Yes, must've been a Freudian slip... you know, where you say one thing, but you really mean a mother.

[Joseph E. Smith]

Then there's the issue of older, more knowledgeable and reserved folks who have the social skills of a poison toad. People often equate knowledge with character or maturity, which is not necessarily accurate.

True.

[Cathy Wilde]

True, indeed. And believe me, some of them show up at sessions regularly.

I think some of what's at issue is a feeling of "guardianship" of a tradition, plus reputations -- both personal and of the board at large.

I also think there's some concern at the fact that many of us have been down the same path as the whippersnappers, made similar mistakes, and are somehow trying to "protect" unsuspecting newbies from that untempered enthusiasm.

Finally, I think it's often a matter of delivery -- presenting your opinion as mere opinion and NOT as proven fact is less inclined to open a can of worms. If I say, "In my opinion, Frankie Gavin is The Second Coming," then people can think "well, she's an eejit, but that's her opinon." Other people who don't know Frankie Gavin can think "hmmm, I don't know what she knows, but maybe I'll look into this guy and see."

In other words, I leave the door open for them to discover stuff on their own.

However, if I say "Frankie Gavin IS The Second Coming" with any measure of authority (even bluff authority counts, here) then someone, somewhere else who IS EQUALLY SURE that Frankie Gavin is NOT TSC will be compelled to challenge me. And perhaps they can in fact prove me wrong, who knows. But regardless, everyone piles on with their opinions which soon turn into assertions and then the whole thing gets huge.

Among other things, they're often worried my stupid assertion will spawn a whole generation of misguided Frankieites or something.

And of course, the perceived stakes are raised when more money gets involved (i.e., buying a Frankie Gavin CD and hating it is not perceived as big a loss as buying a certain flute and hating it (although if you're Zen about it, you can learn a few things from hateful flutes, too)).

So basically, the more times I assert something as fact, especially when there's no substantial evidence to support my authority, the more rancor I create -- because after a certain point I become regarded as consistently wrong, clueless and perhaps even mildly dangerous to people who don't know better by people who do.

The funniest thing is that everybody's just trying to help. It mostly comes from a good place, I think.

But that's just my own damn opinion.

Love, the Village Idiot.

[maire]

So basically, the more times I assert something as fact, especially when there's no substantial evidence to support my authority, the more rancor I create -- because after a certain point I become regarded as consistently wrong, clueless and perhaps even mildly dangerous to people who don't know better by people who do.

The funniest thing is that everybody's just trying to help. It mostly comes from a good place, I think.

But that's just my own damn opinion.

And a very fine opinion it is too Cathy.
I think the Doctor should order some 'chill pills' for some of the members here.
I have a spare bottle if anyone wants share?

[BrassBlower]

I think the Doctor should order some 'chill pills' for some of the members here.

Ain't that the truth!

I have a spare bottle if anyone wants share?

I know, I know, I could use a few myself.

[Alan]

I think the Doctor should order some 'chill pills' for some of the members here.
I have a spare bottle if anyone wants share?

Those pills look a lot like the 'smart pills' I get from my landlady. I clean out her rabbit cage and see she gives a lot of those pills to her bunny too but I don't see it getting any smarter so I think I may stop taking them.

I have always been a quiet chap, even as a lad, but as I get older I find that, both for myself and for the sake of others, I often suffer fools less gladly than in my younger days.

Of course who we see as the 'fools' and who the 'foolees' often differs.