Lungs

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:27 am

I have just started learning a Trip to Durrow and had a listen to Mr Larsen playing it and he first takes a breath at bar no 11 taking it at a very gentle pace... The best I can manage is bar 7. How the **@@@***!!! does he do it?

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:47 am

Easy really. Not only was he inspirational in the design of the Flutebeard (TM), he also came up with the FluteBellows(TM). Here he is outside his engineering workshop with the prototype:

Those early experiments revealed some minor shortcomings in the original design, and a week later he produced the Larsen Perfected Foot-operated FluteBellows (TM) not visible in this picture of him outside his engineering workshop.

He's still working on the issue of "surgical intervention", since not many punters are keen on having a non-return valve implant bolted to their ribcage (also not visible in the publicity photos, for obvious 'competitive intelligence' reasons).

johnkerr · Post by **johnkerr** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:06 am

Actually, Grey Larsen was using a hose-clamped flute on that recording. I'm surprised he didn't credit the hose clamp installer in the sleeve notes. It's a little known fact that a good set of hose clamps, properly installed, can add a good three to four bars onto every phrase you play.

As it happens, Durrow is one of the few places where you can get a good aftermarket set of hose clamps installed on your flute at a reasonable price. That's due to the two major hose clamp innovators of the late 19th century having set up shop there right across the street from each other. A major price war ensued, driving the price to rock-bottom levels. After one of these concerns was bought by Yamaha in 1967, the other one was driven out of business. Yamaha elected to keep the price low on the hose clamps, though, as a loss leader for its motorcycle and piano markets.

Indeed, the tune The Trip to Durrow was written by a long-forgotten happy hose clamp customer, and the availability of good cheap hose clamps there has helped keep the tune popular for generations of flute players.

Hose clamps. Don't enter the recording studio without 'em!

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:07 am

I wondered what it was, I thought he might have been having lessons with that weird Mr Dick. I'm already being laughed at for doing strange breathing exercises in bed. I think suggesting surgery would result in people phoning for the men in white coats.

Not that the tune needs that sort of marathon lungpower, in fact I think it's better punctuated by breaths, but hell, to have the option would be nice...

... as for hose clamps I'll have you know we call them 'Jubillee Clips' over here!

Jack Bradshaw · Post by **Jack Bradshaw** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:17 am

'Jubillee Clips' ........Whew! Had me for a minute there....I thought you meant those damm spring ones you apply with pliers....ruined more heads with those things! (used to steal 'em off MGAs)

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:57 am

When I saw the title of this thread I was so sure you were going to ask which pair of lungs you should order.

In that case I would advise against lungmakers with the 10-year-waiting list!

And then of course I would discuss the value of sticking with one system for a while, whether it's the bellows or the hose clamps.

Anyway, this is so much better. Meanwhile, where can I get some of them thar hose clamps? And what's the wait for those? Are they available in gold?

Chiffed · Post by **Chiffed** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 11:27 am

Over here we use the BMC (big mutha circlips) and industrial-compressor approach. I solved the surgical-intervention problem when a fellow in the pub told me (by happy coincidence) where to shove it.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:41 pm

Now for a serious post.

Don't worry about when he breaths. Worry about your own breathing, if you need to take a beath at bar 7, do it. Why breath in the same spot everytime? Breathing in a different spot creates a variation. Try to take in as much air as you possibly can, when you start to run out push with your stomach.

BrendanB · Post by **BrendanB** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:55 pm

Avery,

I don't think the question was about breathing exactly like Grey Larsen, but more about being impressed that he can sustain a phrase that long. Listening to other players' breathing patterns is a good way to learn about phrasing.

A lot of being able to play longer phrases is about having a strong and focused embouchure. I used to get pissed off that a friend of mine, who is a great flute player as well as a smoker, was able to play a lot longer phrases than I could. It's not necessarily about lung capacity, but more about how efficiently and focused your airsteam is.

That said, nothing compares to the Flutebeard (TM) and Flutebellows (TM). Word on the street though is that Joe Burke is suing for copyright infringement on the Flutebeard.

treeshark · Post by **treeshark** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:03 pm

Just so Brendan, it's the freedom to use expressive phrasing that's attractive, I've been doing exercises where you make a breath last precisely the length you want, IE blow a note for ten seconds and have no air left, the same for 15 secs then again for thirty. You hope to develop a sense of what rate to expend the air for the phrase, it is also important to empty the lungs regularly to refresh the oxygen, experienced players apparently leak air through their noses to acheive this.

Jennie · Post by **Jennie** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:39 pm

I leak (air) through my nose for whistle playing, but I never have any left when I'm playing flute! Unless there's a subtle leakage going on... it may be time to invest in Nose Clamps!

Jennie

Cathy Wilde · Post by **Cathy Wilde** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:48 pm

I swear by my FluteBeard. I got one for the dog, too!

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:07 pm

BrendanB wrote:A lot of being able to play longer phrases is about having a strong and focused embouchure.

That's true, although it also has a lot to do with proper breath support. I know I've posted about this before, but I took voice lessons for a while (not for singing, but because I was using voice-recognition software for a few years when I couldn't type, and wanted to avoid voice strain), and my voice teacher helped show me how to do that...it really helped my flute playing.

This is not about "using your diaphragm," because all breathing is done with the diaphragm; instead breath support involves your abdominal muscles to support the breath and your windpipe to throttle the flow of air out of your lungs so it doesn't all come out in one whoosh. My voice teacher showed me how she could, with just a normal breath, talk nonstop for more than 40 seconds in a loud and resonant voice without taking a breath or trailing off at the end. I can do it for a little more than 30 seconds; she said some of her students could do it for nearly a minute.

I think the secret lies in two things: first, keeping your abdominal muscles firm as you exhale, so that your stomach moves inward as your lungs empty out, and second, closing your windpipe just slightly as you breathe out to help regulate the flow. The real regulation of the flow happens at your mouth, of course, but if I hold my hand to my throat when I play the flute I can feel my windpipe adjusting a little as well.

I don't think it helps to take a big deep breath before you take a phrase on the flute; my teacher always told me to just take a normal breath. However, building your lung capacity through aerobic exercise like swimming does seem to help -- I remember Kevin Crawford talking about how much swimming helped his ability to take longer phrases when he wanted to.

The other thing that I've noticed is that flute players can tend to run out of breath more quickly when playing dance tunes than airs or other slow melodies. I think this is more psychological than anything else...your fingers moving faster shouldn't require THAT much more air! I think it's more due to excitement. Sometimes it helps when working on your breathing to play a long slow tune first, and then using that same breathing, play a dance tune. I've tried that with some of my students and they've found it helps them take longer phrases.

And you can do a lot of glottal stops and breath pulsing within a long phrase. Long phrases don't necessarily imply smooth Molloy-esque or Larsen-esque playing!

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:21 pm

All of that sounds reasonable, Brad, but are you really just blowing a smokescreen over the secret design of your Flute Mask (patent pending) we see in your avatar?

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:27 pm

I think we pipers need to stick together on this one and develop a FluteMore Syntehtic Bag, complete with Water Trap, adapted for flute.