why and when to upgrade?

GaryKelly · Post by **GaryKelly** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:51 am

daiv wrote: i know that when i get a chance to try out flutes in the 7-10,000 range, they will be amazing. but, for that price i can get the two concertinas i have on order, a Jon C. and a Copley.

Jon C. and Copley make concertinas now??

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:11 am

Hi Jennie,

Your feelings of frustration and confusion are similar to my own at your point in flute life. It's the primary reason I started my site. This isn't meant to be a CP, I'm just trying to say I know how you feel.

Now, some words of comfort. The more flutes I play the more I feel that I could be really happy with about any really well-made flute. It's true that they all have nuances of difference but as I progress as a player I find that I can make about any good flute do about anything I want it to do.

You will never "outgrow" your Burns. Someday you may want something different but you won't likely "need" something better. John Skelton plays a Burns and another huge flute demi-god has one on order (I ain't sayin' who, so don't ask!)

I get to play awesome flutes every day...every "big shot" flute you've ever heard of...none of them is "better" than my boxwood Burns Rudall. But, each of them is different.

When you want to try something different try something different. You don't have to wait until you're "worthy" or "ready" (whatever that means). If you're happy be happy. If you want to try something else go for it.

Cheers,

Doc

greenspiderweb · Post by **greenspiderweb** » Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:08 pm

Doc's got many good points there-especially that with just about any good flute, you can make beautiful music, given that your skills are developing, and be happy. There are so many great flutes out there to be had that it's pretty hard to go wrong with a maker that has been recommended before on the board. Just minor differences from flute to flute-but your preferences will develop over time, and it will lead you in a certain direction-a tone you are after, the type of wood you prefer, ergonomic holes, unlined heads-the choices become easier after you have listened to and tried other flutes. But there's certainly no hurry-if you really enjoy your present flute, and it seems you do, then hold on to it as a benchmark to judge others by.

Sometimes you aren't really upgrading, but refining and discovering what you like in flutes as you go along, trying different ones. I recently have found that I seem to prefer Blackwood for a wooden flute overall. I still like the diversity of having more than one flute-lined heads, unlined heads, small hole, big hole flutes, etc, etc.! It seems I still enjoy the differences between the Pratten and the Rudall, and having the choice.

And the world just wouldn't be the same without polymer flutes-that is one type I could suggest to anyone who doesn't have one-you leave them out ready to be picked up and played at any time as the mood strikes-and no worries-it can't crack, and you can take it anywhere, anytime! It might not be an upgrade , but it's certainly a luxury.

Nelson · Post by **Nelson** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:14 pm

Hi Jennie, don't upgrade before you come to Augusta and try a zillion good flutes.

Nelson

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:03 pm

If I may express a different view from some expressed
in preceding posts,
I have a Byrne Rudall and an Olwell Pratten,
I can play them both pretty well, I think,
but I cannot make them do the same thing; not close.
Maybe it's because I'm not sufficiently advanced,
but I don't think there are only minor differences
between them.

Also I think it is possible to go wrong with some of
the flutes that have been recommended on this board.

Yes, I think John Skelton plays a Burns Bb, as does
Grey Larson--I believe Matt Molloy has one too.

Doc Jones · Post by **Doc Jones** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:58 pm

jim stone wrote:If I may express a different view from some expressed
in preceding posts,
I have a Byrne Rudall and an Olwell Pratten,
I can play them both pretty well, I think,
but I cannot make them do the same thing; not close.
Maybe it's because I'm not sufficiently advanced,
but I don't think there are only minor differences
between them.

Also I think it is possible to go wrong with some of
the flutes that have been recommended on this board.

Yes, I think John Skelton plays a Burns Bb, as does
Grey Larson--I believe Matt Molloy has one too.

May I just clarify in light of Jim's comments. When I said "I can make about any of them do about what I want" I didn't mean that they were identical. I own several flutes because they are not identical. There are real differences.

What I was trying to communicate is that any well-made flute can express itself in a variety of styles and colors. I can make a Burns Rudall bark or a Hammy sing buttery sweet. That was the point I was trying to make. That, and that a good player could grow to really love and enjoy any great flute.

Having said that, I agree that Hammys love to bark and Boxwood Burns Rudalls love to play buttery sweet which, I believe, was Jim's point.

My primary point is that once you start dealing with the top half dozen or so really great flute makers, discussions of "Better" are fairly useless as it all becomes a very personal, subjective process.

Jennie, try different flutes if you want and keep the one/ones you bond with.

Thanks for helping me clarify Jim. You are, as usual, right on.

Doc

dow · Post by **dow** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:06 am

Ditto to what Nelson said. The opportunity to play and hear different maker's flutes is just one of the things I'm looking forward to at Augusta. A real treat from someone in flute-starved Boerne, Texas.

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:46 am

You don't need an upgrade.
You don't need to ask about it.
But you did and there they are and here I am.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:34 am

Yes, if I had only the Bryne or only the Olwell
I would play it gladly and I would not lament.
The Olwell is a lot louder and is helpful when
I need to be heard; the Bryne has a lovely
focused tone. The Olwell is more open and
blends in well with other instruments--I can stay
in the low register and still be heard, which
is often useful.

Other posts: Just trying a flute isn't always enough, especially if you're
not yet experienced. Much good fun, of course, and
beats not trying it, obviously. Helps to hang out with it. That's
why it's necessary to buy them all!

So many flutes; so little money.

daiv · Post by **daiv** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:19 pm

GaryKelly wrote:
daiv wrote: i know that when i get a chance to try out flutes in the 7-10,000 range, they will be amazing. but, for that price i can get the two concertinas i have on order, a Jon C. and a Copley.
Jon C. and Copley make concertinas now??

the concertinas are an edgley and a carroll. the Jon C. and Copley concertinas are on order as well, but the wait is so long i dont think they'll ever arrive.

daiv · Post by **daiv** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:30 pm

jim stone wrote: Other posts: Just trying a flute isn't always enough, especially if you're
not yet experienced. Much good fun, of course, and
beats not trying it, obviously. Helps to hang out with it. That's
why it's necessary to buy them all!

So many flutes; so little money.

haha, buy them all, indeed! lets start a fund, the "buy jim stone flutes but let them get lost at david's house on the way" fund.

i think there is a difference though, between being able to play a flute as well as your weapon of choice at home, and figuring out what its capable of. i couldnt play simple system (and still dont have one of my own...

no $$) when i tried an olwell, and my embouchure was not as developed as it is now. even though i couldnt get my fingers around the low d, and get a shakey speed the plough out of it, i could still tell what an amazing flute it was.

dow · Post by **dow** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:31 pm

daiv wrote:
GaryKelly wrote:
daiv wrote: i know that when i get a chance to try out flutes in the 7-10,000 range, they will be amazing. but, for that price i can get the two concertinas i have on order, a Jon C. and a Copley.
Jon C. and Copley make concertinas now??
the concertinas are an edgley and a carroll. the Jon C. and Copley concertinas are on order as well, but the wait is so long i dont think they'll ever arrive.

Daiv,

Would those be Rudall & Rose or Pratten concertinas that Jon C and Copley ae making you?

daiv · Post by **daiv** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:42 pm

dow wrote: Daiv,

Would those be Rudall & Rose or Pratten concertinas that Jon C and Copley ae making you?

well, Dave Copley is making me a hybrid with tweaked reeds with the option of making it a 38 key in the future, and Jon C. is making the left hand pratten and the right hand a rudall & rose, as well as engraving the screws on the concertina. they both asked me if i wanted flute tuning, and the jury is still out on that one. although it would be nice to use the A and the G buttons to get my c, i might opt instead for a whole on the concertina to uncover when i play a b. but in that case, i cant decide which b i want to use for that, or both. what would you go for?

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:35 pm

Daiv - please be sure and get your flutes dry tuned...no one will want to sit next to you with a wet tuned flute - they're wet enough already.

Eric