rudall and pratten style flutes

chas · Post by **chas** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:14 pm

Olwells all have the same embouchure cut, whereas traditionally Prattens and Rudalls have had different embouchure cuts, that are somewhat different from Patrick's. So in one way, an Olwell Pratten will play more like an Olwell Rudall than it will like a Boosey Pratten. OTOH, to me, the Olwell Pratten is much more difficult to play than the Olwell Rudall. I've the same problems with an Olwell Pratten that I have with the Hammy, and that I had with the Copley -- namely, octave jumping and the inability to really make the low notes honk. So in another way, an Olwell Pratten is more like a Pratten than it is like an Olwell Rudall.

Whether different Olwells behave more like Olwells or like the models they're based on, I think, depends strongly on the player, but I also think that any experienced player will notice different model Olwells behaving somewhat differently despite the uniform embouchure cuts.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:00 pm

I know that in my post in this thread I mentioned that I leaned more toward the Rudell style of flute but the more I think about it I realy don`t think I have ever played a Rudell style flute. In fact the closest I have ever come might be in the Fred Rose I have though I say that without knowing what he uses as a model. I only make the comparison bassed on the size of the tone holes not the bore. I have played flutes that had similar blow holes to pictures I have seen of Rudell style flutes but that is about it. Of course I have heard many R&R flutes on recordings and so base my preference on those. There are still mysteries though. I just started using the slow down feature on my confusser to try and learn a tune and get more of an idea of what lift is and such. I started to learn a tune played by Catherine McEvoy who I know plays an R&R flute, unlined no less. When I put my single key Barnett to my lips I was blown away. Not only was I in tune with her but my tone actualy matched the tone of her flute. I couldn`t believe it. This tiny holed cocus tube sounded wounderful. Course I`m talking relitive here you understand

Now I have just turned 58 and have no dilussions about ever playing in public other than takeing after Jim and maybe doing a little street corner stuff and play only in my humble abode where I enjoy getting very intament with my flute. I must listen to my tone, eyes clossed and when the flute is warmed up and my lips are working and I have found the right spot I slip into a most enjoyable space where time means nothing and the only thing that stops me is my lips giving out or my back, one or the other. I had a very hard time getting into the Pratten. It just seemed to massive a thing to control. I would still have to say that the flute thing is just to subjective and that only playing as many flutes as you can get your hands on will solve the problem of what is the best flute for any individual. I am a total believer in sticking to one flute, its just that deciding which flute that will be is way too much fun. Someday maybe........in fact I am writting this only to side track myself from going to the post office to early to pick up my next new old antique flute that I will more then likely fall in love with. And so it goes..........

Take care

Tom

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:11 am

I don't know if I can actually add much to this thread, but here goes. I am the happy owner of both a Hawkes and Son (Pratten design) and a Rudall and Rose (#4117), currently outfitted with a hj from Patrick Owell. I recently acquired the Hawkes and Son flute, and have been dividing my time between both instruments. I've been trying to ascertain the subtle differences in the flutes for a couple of months now and find this exercise difficult at best. Both flutes have a wonderful reedy tone. My fellow sessioneers tell me that the R&R is louder than the Hawkes. This I believe is totally a function of the new hj from Patrick. The main difference I hear between the two instruments is in the subtle tonal qualities. Thje R&R is more expressive and provides a wider range of timbres than the Hawkes. I also feel that I have more control with the R&R. I am in no way dissing the Hawkes-It is an amazing flute. I sometimes choose to play certain pieces on one or the other of the flutes because each of them lends themselves to particular tunes in terms of timbre/expressiveness. I also feel that I get a cleaner sound from the R&R because of the medium sized tone holes. My suggestion? Get one of each!
Arbo

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 8:16 am

Anybody know how much Pat O charges for one of these
headjoints?

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:51 am

Jim,

I paid $500 and waited two years.

Arbo

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 9:54 am

Thanks.

Jack Bradshaw · Post by **Jack Bradshaw** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 11:25 am

I'm recommending Peter Noy......he has a much bigger headjoint business than Pat and they are excellent........a little different style, but excellent......
http://www.noyflutes.com/index.html

For something realy unique try:
http://www.mckennaflutes.com/
Chris McKenna
8 Raymond Rd
Deerfield, NH 03037
Phone: 603-463-4185, FAX: 603-463-7230

see also: http://www.larrykrantz.com/woodmake.htm

eilam · Post by **eilam** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:09 pm

Peter Noy - yes - i love his work. he made a second head for my R&R # 4932, and it's all that i was hoping for and more.
Peter's work is not cheap - but it's worth every penny.

like Arbo said, own one of each if you can.

i think Hammy makes a good Pratten that is very true to the original design.

for tone, and even volume, i like R&R, i think the focused tone carries better then the big round tone of most Prattens, but there is some satisfaction that comes with playing a work horse like Pratten.

eilam.

Hoovorff · Post by **Hoovorff** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:36 pm

Some posts earlier, Jim mentioned something about Bryan Byrne's flutes and their possible sonic kinship to Rudalls. I've never played a real Rudall, so I can't comment on that, but I really, really LOVE my Byrne flute. I've had it about five months now, and feel like I'm just now beginning to get the tone on it I want. I call it my "Laser Beam." It seems very focused and penetrating, yet very woody and rich. When I talked with Bryan before he made it, I told him I wasn't interested in volume as much as I was in tonal nuance and warmth. This flute really delivers on those two factors. I just love this flute. (I'm repeating myself.) I think my Olwell Rudall is louder, but the Byrne seems more focused and penetrating to me. I'm going to have to take it to a session and see how it carries.

Well, just wanted to share my valentine for this particular flute.

Jeanie

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:17 pm

Yes, Bryan told me it would take me a year to see what the flute
is about; it's 11 months now and at last I seem to be able to
play it. The flute is just fascinating. But it's hard to believe
it carries better than an Olwell Pratten.

I would like to hear reports about how it performs at sessions.
Whenever things get loud I've taken the Pratten.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:30 pm

I would suppose a Chris Abell headjoint would be very good.
I've heard one of his Boehm flutes and it sounds fine.
He has headjoints for simple system flutes.

rama · Post by **rama** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 5:09 pm

jim stone wrote:Yes, Bryan told me it would take me a year to see what the flute
is about; it's 11 months now and at last I seem to be able to
play it. The flute is just fascinating. But it's hard to believe
it carries better than an Olwell Pratten.

I would like to hear reports about how it performs at sessions.
Whenever things get loud I've taken the Pratten.

jim,

too bad you can't meet me monday night at the session in boston, just an hour up the road from providence. we could maybe realize a few things about the 'hidden potential' of the byrne flute together. it might help you understand the flute better. give it some thought. if there is any chance you can make it just let me know so i can meet you there.

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 6:52 pm

Really nice of you and it's tough. Maybe we can do it later.
I'll let you know if/when. Thanks, Jim