Henke wrote:Ann, tonguing is the most natural way to separate repeated notes, but it is not tasteful, it does not sound good in ITM.
"For every complex problem there is a simple answer that is wrong." The above statement, with all respect to Henke, is a pretty good example. So are lots of other generalizations about tonguing in traditional whistle playing.
It's true that beginners all over the world make a dreadful bollocks of the Kesh jig. But this has more to do with the fact that they have no idea what a jig is supposed to sound like than whether they or not they are tonguing.
In other words, simply not tonguing won't help such a player much. And on the other hand, plenty of good players separate many of the repeated notes in a tune like that with tonguing.
StevieJ wrote:
In other words, simply not tonguing won't help such a player much. And on the other hand, plenty of good players separate many of the repeated notes in a tune like that with tonguing.
I agree. Since kesh as was mentioned before, I'll use it as an example. To me it sounds better with SOME tounging in it. However, I prolly use tounging more than most people. Not because i can't do the ornementations, but sometimes I prefer the sound of tounging over ornementation. For an easy example, silver spear. With those first triplets most people will roll those notes. I prefer to takata. Makes it unique to my ears. 2 words of caution. #1 DONT over do it, use it tastefully #2 Tounging can really slow down your playing. Finger ornementation is much faster. So its better to have finger ornementations really down and throw in tounging everyonce and awhile for spice
I then came home, and went whistling all over the house, much pleased with my whistle, but disturbing all the family.
I see tonguing like a cut, a tap or any other ornamentation.
And some ornamentation is neccesary for any tune to sound good. Of course if you repeat the same ornament every single note it sounds horrible.
Anyway, just listen to good whistle and flute players and, if you listen carefully, you'll surely hear lots of tonguing, cuts, rolls, crans, taps, triplets, vibratos, .......
Because of this thread, I've been taking a much closer listen to whistle tunes distinguishing the use of tongue versus the use of finger ornamentation and whether or not it is used on the beat. This has been great, as I love my celtic tunes and any excuse to listen more closely is welcomed. I think I understand what everyone is saying, you have to match the technique to how the music feels and flows. It doesn't change the fact that tonguing is hard, and since its so hard I'm going to try to work it in for a while.
The thing about tonguing is that in order to change the rate which I can move my tongue I have to change the air pressure behind it. I can't blow with a steady stream of air and expect to be able to tongue faster. So my fingers have one beat and my tongue another, slower one. Hopefully with time... or maybe I shouldn't be working on reels and tonguing at the same time.
Blaydo wrote:I hope this is of help. Listen to the mp3 while you follow it on the sheet music below. I think this is Claire McKenna playing. Listen particularly to the FAD FAD pedals in the first half of the tune. You'll notice she starts off playing them like this: (cut F) (tongued A) (tongued D) incidentally for Cynth this is an example of how you can start a tune without tonguing the first note and using a cut instead.
Blaydo, thank you for that very helpful post. I bookmarked it. And I see what you mean about starting with a cut. I have not progressed very far, so this was a real good illustration.
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
Uh oh. Now you've been a model of restraint, Lamby! Just hold yourself together a bit longer. Wasn't there a big chiffaroo the last time? Wasn't it spelled tounging then?
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
I just squint my eyes really hard. I never thought of making it bigger. I guess you could click on the "Edit" button too, the one in the right hand corner of the response box. That would be a little less work than copying. I didn't think a youngster like you would have trouble reading it!
Edited to say "Oops"! Lamby is right, see below. "Edit" would only show up in your own response.
Last edited by Cynth on Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
Cynth wrote:I just squint my eyes really hard. I never thought of making it bigger. I guess you could click on the "Edit" button too, the one in the right hand corner of the response box. That would be a little less work than copying. I didn't think a youngster like you would have trouble reading it!
Edited to say "Oops"! Lamby is right, see below. "Edit" would only show up in your own response.
Try reading this then!
I didn't really have a huge problem reading it when I tried a bit harder. Just pressing ctrl+c and the ctrl+v in the adress window was easier though.
Cynth wrote:I just squint my eyes really hard. I never thought of making it bigger. I guess you could click on the "Edit" button too, the one in the right hand corner of the response box. That would be a little less work than copying. I didn't think a youngster like you would have trouble reading it!
Edited to say "Oops"! Lamby is right, see below. "Edit" would only show up in your own response.
Try reading this then!
I didn't really have a huge problem reading it when I tried a bit harder. Just pressing ctrl+c and the ctrl+v in the adress window was easier though.
Hoho haha heehee. Yes, this was way too small. I guess this was a good discussion to have after all. I didn't know about the ctrl+c, etc. but the quote button helped. It's good to be ready for any emergency!
Diligentia maximum etiam mediocris ingeni subsidium. ~ Diligence is a very great help even to a mediocre intelligence.----Seneca
Now you've been a model of restraint, Lamby! 
Hoho haha heehee. Yes, this was way too small. I guess this was a good discussion to have after all. I didn't know about the ctrl+c, etc. but the quote button helped. It's good to be ready for any emergency!