Off-centered holes.

Learning Piper · Post by **Learning Piper** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:00 am

Hello all,
I received a new chanter a couple of weeks ago (the maker will remain unnamed), and after playing it for a while I have noticed that the four bottom holes on the front are visibly off centered compared to the three top holes and the back D hole is off-centered to the left on the back of the chanter. Is this normal? This my first chanter so I don't have anything else to compare it to. I have been playing whistle for a while and I have never played a whistle that had finger holes that were so off-center. Could this hole placement cause stress to the finger and thumb joints? On the plus side, I can hit the second octave consistently and play about four tunes all the way through, and have fun while doing it.

Thanks for your time.
Cheers,

Elmek · Post by **Elmek** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:40 am

Basically it means the pipemaker hasn't a proper set up for drilling holes and is possibly drilling them freehand. See the recent thread on cutting slots

http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=36283

As you can see the makers shown have the chanter solidly fixed and the holes bored using a drilling spindle in the lathe or on a drill press / milling machine.

So long as the holes are in the right place it does not matter that they are slightly off centre - it just does not look very nice. If they are badly out of line and difficult to cover then this would be serious

If you can play four tunes after just a couple of weeks it sounds like you have a nice set of pipes.

billh · Post by **billh** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:35 am

Some makers intentionally place certain holes "off-center", for instance putting the back D closer to the left hand, as your maker seems to have done (intentionally or not). Another candidate for "off center" drilling is the bottom E hole, which may be easier to cover with your right hand pinky if the hole is drilled nearer the right hand.

Egan seems to have done this intentionally in at least one case (judging from the subtle shaping of the very shallow scalloping), and I've seen a Coyne that seemed to have the bottom E placed off centerline as well. There are two possible disadvantages:

1) awkward at first if you are used to a "straight" hole alignment; this is a temporary problem

2) can backfire if the (right handed) chanter is played by a lefty, or vice-versa.

In the case of the Egan, the chanter seems originally to have been set up for a lefty, and the hole placement (or more accurately, the subtle scalloping around the hole) is awkward to cover for some right handed players, myself included.

Of course, off-center holes can also just be a symptom of inaccurate setup, as Elmek notes. But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean inaccurate placement in terms of tonehole distance along the chanter axis - the holes might just have been center-punched freehand, albeit carefully.

regards

Bill

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:53 am

As Bill said it could well be intentional on the part of the pipemaker to make it thus..ye could always contact the maker and ask the question.After all ye seem to be a wee bit wary of the effect it will have on your digits so go ahead and ask..although I doubt if your fears will be founded.
Ye should be able to hit the 2nd octave consistently with any chanter otherwise all ye have is firewood.
If ye do contact the maker perhaps ye can give us the reason for the off centres.
Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

RomanPiper · Post by **RomanPiper** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:05 am

Touch not the cat bot a glove was the Mackintosh Clans motto. Sort of means dont screw around with something unless you can handle it, you know?

Joseph E. Smith · Post by **Joseph E. Smith** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:23 am

My chanter's back d vent is off center to the left, but I asked for it this way. Lateral placement of tone holes doesn't matter (providing the vent is of the proper width and depth), it is the vertical placement that will affect tuning.

Uilliam · Post by **Uilliam** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:18 am

RomanPiper wrote:Touch not the cat bot a glove was the Mackintosh Clans motto. Sort of means dont screw around with something unless you can handle it, you know?

Yes I did know

..my mothers side of the family is septed to MacIntosh frae Invernesshire ,to be more accurate it is the motto not was...
Why the sudden interest in my family motto?and what relevence to this thread??

Slán Go Foill
Uilliam

benwalker · Post by **benwalker** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:51 am

My Family Motto is vey similar
McBean (Mc Bain) "touch not a cat bot a targe"

John Mulhern · Post by **John Mulhern** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:19 am

Maoil'chiarain
________________
Touch not the cat bot with a can of Friskies:

Learning Piper · Post by **Learning Piper** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 12:45 pm

Well, I suppose that my clan's motto of Avise La Fin doesn't really apply (although I have sticking plastic strips down the end of my chanter a lot lately

). I realized I had neglected to mention that the bottom holes are off center to the left. I think this may have something to do with the wrist and thumb joint pain I have been having after playing. (I'm sure my arthritis and fibromialgia doesn't help the old joints either.) Thanks for the info.
Cheers,

mirabai · Post by **mirabai** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:32 am

I routinely make my chanters with the back D hole offset to the left, the bottom holes off to the right and the top hand holes to the left with the C hole a little further. This needs to be done quite carefully and not over done otherwise it defeats the whole (hole) purpose of ergonics. Offsetting the Eb hole from the other right hand holes more than very slightly will not make it easier to reach as it will put it around the chanter, encouraging a leak on the near edge of the hole. In teaching, I've found many neophytes have problems with leaks caused by related hand position. My hole positioning helps this as well as certain techniques such as the half-holed three finger C natural. This sort of thing is subtle. I make my chanters this way because I can, not because I think that it's going to make or break anyone's playing. I have seen some chanters that obviously were not made very carefully. I have also seen some work that exhibited intentional but nonetheless poorly thought out designs. Indenting the holes to facilitate finger placement is another example of this where thoughtfullness is important to avoid having it cause more problems than it solves. Conservatism pays off.

Tim Britton

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:49 pm

A visual example on a whistle made by S.Z.B.E. Whistles, Japan

PD.

mirabai · Post by **mirabai** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:07 am

[/img] Here's what I do. Back D is also shifted toward the thumb.

Tim

Learning Piper · Post by **Learning Piper** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:16 pm

Thanks guys, the pics help. (Tim, beautiful work! I'll have to take a look at your site. (So many instruments, so little money.

)