Put this rumor to rest!

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:00 pm

It's up to the instructor to say whether a silver flute is "allowable" in the class, but most Irish flute players who teach group classes at music camps like this end up with a few Boehm-system players in the group and it's usually not a problem. They do miss out on a few things and may feel somewhat out of place, but I don't see it as a major obstacle.

I've worked successfully with a few Boehm students myself to teach them Irish music on the flute even though I don't play the Boehm system and don't know the fingering. Grey Larsen's book helps a bit in that regard (he has some advice to Boehm players at the end) and most Boehm players can figure out how the ornamentation works on their flute if a simple-system player gives them the basic idea of how to do rolls, cuts, taps, etc.

What's more difficult is if you have a rank beginner on the Boehm system flute in a class with a bunch of beginners on the simple-system. Unless the teacher knows both systems, it can be a headache and disruptive to the class.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:06 pm

The techniques used to ornament vary a bit.
Grey Larsen's book The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle covers how Joanie Madden does it.

...didn't think it took that long for me to find all of the links...

Brad, F# is the only difference in fingering.

edited to add the obvious...

Wormdiet · Post by **Wormdiet** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:07 pm

jamesP wrote:My family will be attending Swannanoa this year (first time). I've been fiddling for almost 2 years, my wife is taking up the mandolin and my daughter is playing the flute.

Question about the flute classes: They say the flute must be tuned in the key of "D". My daughter has your basic, run of the mill student flute. It's a Gemeinhardt M3. I have no clue what key it's in.

Am I going to have to get her an open-hole Irish flute or can she use what she has?

Go raibh mile maith agaibh!

What matters more than the gear is a good ear for Irish music. Even an experienced classical flautist would be better off in the beginner class if they are completely unfamiliar with the idiom.

That being said, you can always get a Tipple for $80 max or a CB folk flute - plenty of students had the BUrns and it was no issue whatsover. But don;t take my word for it - if you can, ask the folks at Swannanoa (or the instructor!) directly.

Oh - A standard model Boehm is perfectly capable of playing in "D" so the key of the instrument is not an issue - as noted above, it's more a question of fingerings, embouchure, and ornaments.

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:13 pm

jamesP wrote: Question about the flute classes: They say the flute must be tuned in the key of "D". My daughter has your basic, run of the mill student flute. It's a Gemeinhardt M3. I have no clue what key it's in.

Forgot to mention that if she asks her classical flute teacher what key her flute is in, the answer will be "C." But to Irish players, it's in D. The standard C classical Boehm-system flute is actually in the same key as what Irish players call a D flute, so she should be able to use that flute for the class IF it's okay with the instructor.

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:16 pm

jamesP wrote:My family will be attending Swannanoa this year (first time). I've been fiddling for almost 2 years, my wife is taking up the mandolin and my daughter is playing the flute.

Question about the flute classes: They say the flute must be tuned in the key of "D". My daughter has your basic, run of the mill student flute. It's a Gemeinhardt M3. I have no clue what key it's in.

Am I going to have to get her an open-hole Irish flute or can she use what she has?

Go raibh mile maith agaibh!

If she is serious about playing Irish music, a simple system flute is probably a good idea. It doesn't have to be wood, at least not from the beginning. There are plenty of great polymer flutes, and some inexpensive wooden flutes of decent quality. But if she just wants to try it out, ask if she can play the Boehm. She'll probably want to get a simple system after the class anyway

Cheers

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:21 pm

Denny wrote:
Brad, F# is the only difference in fingering.

I think there's at least one or two other notes that are fingered differently, though, right? Like second-octave D and the C-sharp versus C natural? On a keyless flute you don't have a C key, remember!

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:40 pm

bradhurley wrote:
Denny wrote:
Brad, F# is the only difference in fingering.
I think there's at least one or two other notes that are fingered differently, though, right? Like second-octave D and the C-sharp versus C natural? On a keyless flute you don't have a C key, remember!

second-octave D works the same
C# is OOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Cnat is XOO OOO (and left thumb off)

Hoovorff · Post by **Hoovorff** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:42 pm

What's the website for Swanannoa? I couldn't find it.

Thanks, Jeanie

bradhurley · Post by **bradhurley** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:49 pm

Denny wrote:second-octave D works the same
C# is OOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Cnat is XOO OOO (and left thumb off)

Thanks -- it's that left thumb business that I was remembering as being different!

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:44 pm

bradhurley wrote:
Denny wrote:second-octave D works the same
C# is OOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Cnat is XOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Thanks -- it's that left thumb business that I was remembering as being different!

C nat doesn't seem to be the same anywhere...
I had to go get the thing to find out.

Unseen122 · Post by **Unseen122** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:01 pm

bradhurley wrote: But to Irish players, it's in D. The standard C classical Boehm-system flute is actually in the same key as what Irish players call a D flute, so she should be able to use that flute for the class IF it's okay with the instructor.

If it is Crawford's class I don't think he will mind, he seemed pretty open minded when I meet him at the afore mentioned concert.

dcopley · Post by **dcopley** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:03 pm

Hoovorff wrote:What's the website for Swanannoa? I couldn't find it.

Thanks, Jeanie

Try this: www.swangathering.org/Catalog/CL/sgclsched.html

Does anyone have suggestions on places to stay? I'm thinking of taking the family along, and the dorm-style accomodations might not be the best for that. Thanks.

Dave Copley
Loveland, Ohio

AaronMalcomb · Post by **AaronMalcomb** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:38 pm

Wormdiet wrote:What matters more than the gear is a good ear for Irish music. Even an experienced classical flautist would be better off in the beginner class if they are completely unfamiliar with the idiom.

This is very true. I have a GHB student who teaches Boehm flute and Baroque recorder. She's interested in Irish flute and whistle too so sometimes after the bagpipe lesson we go over some tunes on the flute and work on ornamentation. She has a good enough ear for it but every so often I have to steer her away from her Classical and Baroque habits on some of the more technical aspects of the music.

seisflutes · Post by **seisflutes** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 7:52 pm

Denny wrote:second-octave D works the same
C# is OOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Cnat is XOO OOO (and left thumb off)

That's the proper way(I played silver flute for a couple years, both classical and Irish music). However, you can leave the left thumb on for both and finger them as on a simple system flute and it works just fine for Irish music. If you want your Cnat to sound more like it does on a simple sytem flute, OXX OOO is good for that. In case anybody's interested.

Denny · Post by **Denny** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:08 pm

seisflutes wrote:
Denny wrote:second-octave D works the same
C# is OOO OOO (and left thumb off)
Cnat is XOO OOO (and left thumb off)
That's the proper way(I played silver flute for a couple years, both classical and Irish music). However, you can leave the left thumb on for both and finger them as on a simple system flute and it works just fine for Irish music. If you want your Cnat to sound more like it does on a simple sytem flute, OXX OOO is good for that. In case anybody's interested.

Hush fool! We've gone too far with this already...

Next thing ya know you'll be telling 'em how many fingerings for Bb there are on the silver thing an they'll be gittin' their pitchforks.